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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Herschel" data-source="post: 5988223" data-attributes="member: 78357"><p>You miss my point, what I'm saying is we can go back and forth all day, you say toma<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite22" alt="(y)" title="Thumbs up (y)" loading="lazy" data-shortname="(y)" />to, I say toma(h)to. I was responding to an earlier post. 3E and 3.5 were separate editions because much of the information in 3.5 superceded 3.0, where Essentials didn't supercede anything in 4E, and not just in available products but also in characters already in-play. If I'm playing in a game with Essentials, I don't need to change my regular character to fit (or to not awkwardly fit). From 3.0 to 3.5 many did. They weren't that far apart, but again the new superceded the old. </p><p> </p><p>Who said it was? The fact remains the company doesn't give a whit about a solid ruleset, they care about rate of return and sales. For another example I give you reality TV. Network execs see the cost/return numbers and don't care it's not quality or creative, only that it makes them money.</p><p> By your definition designers certainly aren't waiting for sales data or direction, they've got ideas still in the bucket not introduced with the last product and stuff they're coming up with all the time. (We'll come back to this)</p><p> If you believe this I've got some ocean front property in Iowa you may be interested in. They had outside input as well as market research. They weren't a bunch of dummies cooped up ignoring the outside world. </p><p></p><p>It's realistic and not really cynical.</p><p>1. WotC heard all the gamers decrying about how 'other companies gave us a public playtest because they care about us' stuff and they thought "hey, we can use that". It's good PR.</p><p>2. This introduces new concepts and rules more gradually in to the market. From that standpoint, those that may be more reluctant to change aren't given such a "jarring" transition. </p><p>3. If you think Combat Superiority is something they came up with only after feedback lets talk about that Iowa property. Mearls and Co. have a bucketload of stuff they want to introduce just waiting. They're bright guys. </p><p>4. Marketing is often the most expensive part of a product when all is said and done. </p><p></p><p>Yes and no. I'm not claiming it's a majority, but there's definitely a group there. It's more like a Venn Diagram than overlapping groups. </p><p></p><p>Doubtful. People want Vancian Wizards for different reasons, I'm not claiming otherwise. I do think they should not have Vancian Wizards as core (or any system past at-wills) but have that module in the first product offering. </p><p>And I agree with that. I think they should. I also think that it should be set up as alternate spell systems should not supercede anything in the core system but handled as add-ons.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herschel, post: 5988223, member: 78357"] You miss my point, what I'm saying is we can go back and forth all day, you say toma(y)to, I say toma(h)to. I was responding to an earlier post. 3E and 3.5 were separate editions because much of the information in 3.5 superceded 3.0, where Essentials didn't supercede anything in 4E, and not just in available products but also in characters already in-play. If I'm playing in a game with Essentials, I don't need to change my regular character to fit (or to not awkwardly fit). From 3.0 to 3.5 many did. They weren't that far apart, but again the new superceded the old. Who said it was? The fact remains the company doesn't give a whit about a solid ruleset, they care about rate of return and sales. For another example I give you reality TV. Network execs see the cost/return numbers and don't care it's not quality or creative, only that it makes them money. By your definition designers certainly aren't waiting for sales data or direction, they've got ideas still in the bucket not introduced with the last product and stuff they're coming up with all the time. (We'll come back to this) If you believe this I've got some ocean front property in Iowa you may be interested in. They had outside input as well as market research. They weren't a bunch of dummies cooped up ignoring the outside world. It's realistic and not really cynical. 1. WotC heard all the gamers decrying about how 'other companies gave us a public playtest because they care about us' stuff and they thought "hey, we can use that". It's good PR. 2. This introduces new concepts and rules more gradually in to the market. From that standpoint, those that may be more reluctant to change aren't given such a "jarring" transition. 3. If you think Combat Superiority is something they came up with only after feedback lets talk about that Iowa property. Mearls and Co. have a bucketload of stuff they want to introduce just waiting. They're bright guys. 4. Marketing is often the most expensive part of a product when all is said and done. Yes and no. I'm not claiming it's a majority, but there's definitely a group there. It's more like a Venn Diagram than overlapping groups. Doubtful. People want Vancian Wizards for different reasons, I'm not claiming otherwise. I do think they should not have Vancian Wizards as core (or any system past at-wills) but have that module in the first product offering. And I agree with that. I think they should. I also think that it should be set up as alternate spell systems should not supercede anything in the core system but handled as add-ons. [/QUOTE]
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