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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5993577" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that a big part of the difference is timing of when the elements are considered. That is, even a complex build done before play starts, and reconciled into a single number (i.e. a particular skill check) is not considered an impediment to immersion, because it happens away from the table.</p><p> </p><p>This is really just a more detailed example of separating the activities, same as a pre-campaign discussion of "my fighter is going to have this kind of personality so that he can get along with the rest of the group" might not be out of place, but is not expected to then arise that explicitly during play. </p><p> </p><p>Of course, the issue here is that those of us who like metagaming decisions affecting the course of play explicitly like them in play, not before.</p><p> </p><p>Runequest goes to an almost ridiculous amount of trouble to excise such decisions during play, to the extent that some people felt like various versions over-simplified certain mechanics to reduce them to their barest essentials. This is the root about the various disagreements about how precise and fiddly tracking "usage of a skill" for later XP gain can get.</p><p> </p><p>That's the main issue of process-simulation in a nutshell--balancing fidelity to process with mechanics that "disappear into the background" and thus allow immersion. One common way to handle that is to move that fidelity out of play into between session work--thus the RQ "check" on a skill that gets resolved as a process outside of play. Burning Wheel takes a directly counter position on this question, resolving it all fully and consciously at the moment the "check" occurs, even to the extent of someone gaining insight into a skill in the middle of a fight.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5993577, member: 54877"] I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that a big part of the difference is timing of when the elements are considered. That is, even a complex build done before play starts, and reconciled into a single number (i.e. a particular skill check) is not considered an impediment to immersion, because it happens away from the table. This is really just a more detailed example of separating the activities, same as a pre-campaign discussion of "my fighter is going to have this kind of personality so that he can get along with the rest of the group" might not be out of place, but is not expected to then arise that explicitly during play. Of course, the issue here is that those of us who like metagaming decisions affecting the course of play explicitly like them in play, not before. Runequest goes to an almost ridiculous amount of trouble to excise such decisions during play, to the extent that some people felt like various versions over-simplified certain mechanics to reduce them to their barest essentials. This is the root about the various disagreements about how precise and fiddly tracking "usage of a skill" for later XP gain can get. That's the main issue of process-simulation in a nutshell--balancing fidelity to process with mechanics that "disappear into the background" and thus allow immersion. One common way to handle that is to move that fidelity out of play into between session work--thus the RQ "check" on a skill that gets resolved as a process outside of play. Burning Wheel takes a directly counter position on this question, resolving it all fully and consciously at the moment the "check" occurs, even to the extent of someone gaining insight into a skill in the middle of a fight. [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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