Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 5994411" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I'm sorry you feel that way.&nbsp; I am not trying to be an arm-chair academic.&nbsp; I'm just typing words and hoping that they sufficiently convey my thoughts/experiences.&nbsp; I truly am trying to communicate in good faith.&nbsp; I'm not trying to be snarky or condescending or anything of the sort.&nbsp; I really do apologize if it comes off like that.&nbsp; I am not antagonistic toward efforts at DnD Process-Sim.&nbsp; My gaming history encapsulates that effort (frustratingly so).&nbsp; As such, I'm very aware of its limitations and what must be done in order to not not take the &quot;red pill&quot; and climb out of the Rabbit Hole.&nbsp; When I demanded Process-Sim while playing DnD, unfortunately my suspension of disbelief was impossible, given time and intense scrutiny, due to the unphysical nature of the implied setting and the abstractions that the system has historically been premised upon.&nbsp; In order for me to forgive those things (while demanding proper Process-Sim and overarching Simulation), I would have had to either mind-wipe the results of my scrutiny away or not scrutinize and ignore the elephants in room poking me with their tusks or play a different system.&nbsp; Alternatively, I could change my expectations and playstyle.&nbsp; I did the latter.As far as your post above:&nbsp;Quote:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Originally Posted by Underman <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-horizons-upcoming-edition-d-d/326771-respect-door-expectations-real-reason-5e-cant-unite-base-post5994318.html#post5994318" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/enw/buttons/viewpost.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a> &nbsp;&nbsp; If the &quot;problem&quot; is that Process Sim falls apart &quot;badly&quot; upon scrutiny,&nbsp; then do you apply equal scrutiny to the post-hoc/ad-hoc narration made&nbsp; by players and DM?How does anything the player narrate make sense under the same scrutiny?&nbsp; Or do you just lower your expectations? If yes, aren't just ignoring a&nbsp; different problem, but a problem that is more palatable to you?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I hope my post above does a job in explaining.&nbsp; The expectations are not lowered.&nbsp; They are different.&nbsp; Different due to the vast swath of differences between &quot;Simulation&quot; vs &quot;Emulation&quot; and &quot;Process-Sim&quot; vs &quot;Outcome-Based Sim&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 5994411, member: 6696971"] I'm sorry you feel that way. I am not trying to be an arm-chair academic. I'm just typing words and hoping that they sufficiently convey my thoughts/experiences. I truly am trying to communicate in good faith. I'm not trying to be snarky or condescending or anything of the sort. I really do apologize if it comes off like that. I am not antagonistic toward efforts at DnD Process-Sim. My gaming history encapsulates that effort (frustratingly so). As such, I'm very aware of its limitations and what must be done in order to not not take the "red pill" and climb out of the Rabbit Hole. When I demanded Process-Sim while playing DnD, unfortunately my suspension of disbelief was impossible, given time and intense scrutiny, due to the unphysical nature of the implied setting and the abstractions that the system has historically been premised upon. In order for me to forgive those things (while demanding proper Process-Sim and overarching Simulation), I would have had to either mind-wipe the results of my scrutiny away or not scrutinize and ignore the elephants in room poking me with their tusks or play a different system. Alternatively, I could change my expectations and playstyle. I did the latter. As far as your post above: Quote: [SIZE=2]Originally Posted by [B]Underman[/B] [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-horizons-upcoming-edition-d-d/326771-respect-door-expectations-real-reason-5e-cant-unite-base-post5994318.html#post5994318"][IMG]http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/enw/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL][/SIZE] [I] [SIZE=2]If the "problem" is that Process Sim falls apart "badly" upon scrutiny, then do you apply equal scrutiny to the post-hoc/ad-hoc narration made by players and DM? How does anything the player narrate make sense under the same scrutiny? Or do you just lower your expectations? If yes, aren't just ignoring a different problem, but a problem that is more palatable to you?[/SIZE] [/I] I hope my post above does a job in explaining. The expectations are not lowered. They are different. Different due to the vast swath of differences between "Simulation" vs "Emulation" and "Process-Sim" vs "Outcome-Based Sim". [/QUOTE]

Verification