Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5994791" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>First bit, no I mean something more like a person is unhappy with the nature or frequency of criticals happening on a natural 20--as this sometimes leads to results that they don't like. So the DM fudges die rolls or introduces some kind of damage resistance or includes enough healing to nullify the criticals. That is, they ignore or change (usually complicate) the process. Which is fine as far as it goes, but then they can't honestly say that the process was working just fine. And more important, they miss that their process changes would have unacceptable results at <strong>other</strong> tables. </p><p> </p><p>To be precise, I'm not arguing against anyone who says that D&D is the best process sim out there. If I saw that statement, I wouldn't respect it with the dignity of an answer. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I'm arguing against the attitude that D&D is more process sim than it can justly be said of it, and that if it were more process sim it would make the general D&D audience happier. There's really nothing there I can say that Gygax didn't tell them in no uncertain terms while 1E was still the latest thing, but since people ignored him then, I supposed they will certainly ignore the rest of us now. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p><p> </p><p>As for you, no blindspot is not the term I would use. Bluntly, I think there is a hole in your understanding that would be best examined by trying another game or three, and is unlikely to be filled by merely talking with us. If there was a blindspot, you wouldn't be asking these questions. You are under no obligation to examine this hole, or even in any way to accept that it might be there, I hasten to add--much less do anything about it. However, that you are asking these questions makes me guess that you are aware of it, and would be pleased to fill it. </p><p> </p><p>When I studied German, I didn't retain it, I never used it, and I didn't particularly like doing it. Just not my thing (and not the best choice for me to try). But I learned a heck of a lot about my native English while trying German. I think sometimes that a lot of the good bits of D&D are only fully appreciated from the perspective of someone who has given something different a good try. And often the limitations, too. </p><p> </p><p>My comments on fidelity to process-sim are addressed to those with the blindspot. I think in your case, that you haven't really found out for yourself the necessary limits of process-sim, even though you can accept that there are limits for practical reasons. So again, if you are curious about those, don't ask me! Go exploring! You'll make your own conclusions, as everyone should.</p><p> </p><p>I apologize in advance if that is patronizing. I don't mean it to be, but it's late, and maybe not worded as well as it could be. There's no easy way to say, "The questions you are asking make me think there is some experience you are missing," when I do think exactly that.<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5994791, member: 54877"] First bit, no I mean something more like a person is unhappy with the nature or frequency of criticals happening on a natural 20--as this sometimes leads to results that they don't like. So the DM fudges die rolls or introduces some kind of damage resistance or includes enough healing to nullify the criticals. That is, they ignore or change (usually complicate) the process. Which is fine as far as it goes, but then they can't honestly say that the process was working just fine. And more important, they miss that their process changes would have unacceptable results at [B]other[/B] tables. To be precise, I'm not arguing against anyone who says that D&D is the best process sim out there. If I saw that statement, I wouldn't respect it with the dignity of an answer. :) I'm arguing against the attitude that D&D is more process sim than it can justly be said of it, and that if it were more process sim it would make the general D&D audience happier. There's really nothing there I can say that Gygax didn't tell them in no uncertain terms while 1E was still the latest thing, but since people ignored him then, I supposed they will certainly ignore the rest of us now. :D As for you, no blindspot is not the term I would use. Bluntly, I think there is a hole in your understanding that would be best examined by trying another game or three, and is unlikely to be filled by merely talking with us. If there was a blindspot, you wouldn't be asking these questions. You are under no obligation to examine this hole, or even in any way to accept that it might be there, I hasten to add--much less do anything about it. However, that you are asking these questions makes me guess that you are aware of it, and would be pleased to fill it. When I studied German, I didn't retain it, I never used it, and I didn't particularly like doing it. Just not my thing (and not the best choice for me to try). But I learned a heck of a lot about my native English while trying German. I think sometimes that a lot of the good bits of D&D are only fully appreciated from the perspective of someone who has given something different a good try. And often the limitations, too. My comments on fidelity to process-sim are addressed to those with the blindspot. I think in your case, that you haven't really found out for yourself the necessary limits of process-sim, even though you can accept that there are limits for practical reasons. So again, if you are curious about those, don't ask me! Go exploring! You'll make your own conclusions, as everyone should. I apologize in advance if that is patronizing. I don't mean it to be, but it's late, and maybe not worded as well as it could be. There's no easy way to say, "The questions you are asking make me think there is some experience you are missing," when I do think exactly that.:hmm: [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
Top