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<blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 5995351" data-attributes="member: 336">In all editions of DnD that rate has probably been sustained for me.&nbsp; About 95% of the &quot;rules&quot; I don't have a problem with.&nbsp; Then there is that &quot;bothersome&quot; 5%.The &quot;problem&quot;, those of us that want to understand where you are coming from have, is that you mention that in prior editions you had no problem, but with 4e 5% of the powers give you a problem.&nbsp; What did you do in prior editions with &quot;rules&quot; that gave you problems.&nbsp; For me the other 5% I either ignored, modified, or adjusted my expectations for.&nbsp; It's just a game after all, nobody is going to die if I do it &quot;wrong.&quot;Okay, for the purpose of what you are saying I'll use that definition.&nbsp; Then you go on to make this assertion.If Disassociative Mechanics, according to your definition, are when a character and a player are driven apart, I'd appreciate it if you could explain what function of HP is NOT disassociative, by that definition.&nbsp; The character has no &quot;connection&quot; except mechanically to HP.&nbsp; HP is completely a metagame construct.&nbsp; It's not a resource that he (the character) can use or replenish, like filling up a waterskin.&nbsp; It's not something that he (the character) can decide to expend in any way.&nbsp; What is the &quot;connection&quot; in this case that exists, on the character side?&nbsp; I can understand how a player interacts with HP, but what is the interaction from the character side?By the same token the character doesn't know anything about the metagame construct called a daily or encounter power.&nbsp; The player understands it and interacts with it at the metagame level.&nbsp; In the &quot;game fiction&quot; the character doesn't know anything about daily, or encounter powers, levels, initiative, XP, HP, AC, speed, or any of the hundreds of metagame constructs that the game provides.&nbsp; It would be quite jarring if the characters talked to each other in the &quot;game fiction&quot; and said things like, &quot;Dude, I just blew my Initiative roll.&quot; &quot;Man you really kicked ass when you spent Come and Get It.&quot;&nbsp; &quot;That was some awesome Fireball, how many points of damage did you do with that?&quot;&nbsp; Or discussed things as characters such as, &quot;I only have 2 hit points left, come heal me!!&quot;&nbsp; It is assumed that all that &quot;talk&quot; is happening Out of Character.&nbsp; It's happening at the metagame level.So when someone makes a statement such as &quot;I have no problem telling that a daily martial attack is dissociative and hit points are not&quot;, it seems quite strange.&nbsp; If one is disassociative because it drives the player and character apart, I don't see how the other one wouldn't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="D'karr, post: 5995351, member: 336"] In all editions of DnD that rate has probably been sustained for me. About 95% of the "rules" I don't have a problem with. Then there is that "bothersome" 5%. The "problem", those of us that want to understand where you are coming from have, is that you mention that in prior editions you had no problem, but with 4e 5% of the powers give you a problem. What did you do in prior editions with "rules" that gave you problems. For me the other 5% I either ignored, modified, or adjusted my expectations for. It's just a game after all, nobody is going to die if I do it "wrong." Okay, for the purpose of what you are saying I'll use that definition. Then you go on to make this assertion. If Disassociative Mechanics, according to your definition, are when a character and a player are driven apart, I'd appreciate it if you could explain what function of HP is NOT disassociative, by that definition. The character has no "connection" except mechanically to HP. HP is completely a metagame construct. It's not a resource that he (the character) can use or replenish, like filling up a waterskin. It's not something that he (the character) can decide to expend in any way. What is the "connection" in this case that exists, on the character side? I can understand how a player interacts with HP, but what is the interaction from the character side? By the same token the character doesn't know anything about the metagame construct called a daily or encounter power. The [B]player[/B] understands it and interacts with it at the metagame level. In the "game fiction" the character doesn't know anything about daily, or encounter powers, levels, initiative, XP, HP, AC, speed, or any of the hundreds of metagame constructs that the game provides. It would be quite jarring if the [B][I]characters[/I][/B] talked to each other in the "game fiction" and said things like, "Dude, I just blew my Initiative roll." "Man you really kicked ass when you spent Come and Get It." "That was some awesome Fireball, how many points of damage did you do with that?" Or discussed things[B] as characters[/B] such as, "I only have 2 hit points left, come heal me!!" It is assumed that all that "talk" is happening Out of Character. It's happening at the metagame level. So when someone makes a statement such as "I have no problem telling that a daily martial attack is dissociative and hit points are not", it seems quite strange. If one is disassociative because it drives the player and character apart, I don't see how the other one wouldn't. [/QUOTE]

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