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Message: <blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 5998212" data-attributes="member: 336">I do not believe the common usage of "even" in the language means what you are inferring here.  However, this is a somewhat interesting conversation, so I'll bite.The use of even in this sentence is used to emphasize.So the rule says:So if a player makes a check without thieves' tools he takes a penalty, even if he uses a simple tool.The sentence structure for that is what carries ALL the meaning.  So I'll use something else as an example to illustrate.Attempting a Walk on Coals check without a set of good shoes imposes a negative modifier, even if a rubber sandal is employed. If you use Iron-soled Shoes, you gain a positive modifier.At no time in that sentence did the designer prohibit the Walk on Coals check.  The same way that it's not prohibited on the Open Locks check.  The use of even is there to illustrate that rubber sandals are not considered good shoes for the purpose of Walk on Coals.  The same way that a simple tool is not considered a thieves' tool for the purpose of Open Locks. Obviously the Iron-soled Shoes are in some way better than good shoes.  In the same way that Masterwork tools are better than regular tools.Some may consider the "rule" ambiguous, as indeed it is within the context of the other rules.  But on its own it's rather clear.  Which is my least favorite knock-on effect within 3.x.  The listing of thieves' tools makes it look like they are required, with the use of "MUST improvise".  But neither the Open Locks or the Disable Device rule read in any way to show that they "require" the tools.-</blockquote>

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