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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5998557" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p><span style="color: red"><strong>Mod Note:</strong> See my post below. ~Umbran</span></p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>You mean we actually examine statements and check that they are true? And don't allow you to get away with evasions? Yeah, that's really like politicians.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>...says the person claiming Gygax intentionally wrote a process sim. You can't play 4e the way he wrote D&D. But that doesn't make it a bad game. 4e doesn't even make the pretense of being oD&D - it is its own entity and Gygax could have treated it on its own merits. 3.X failed at many things Gygax said were important. Balance being an obvious one.</p><p> </p><p>But as normal, you present just an unsupported assertion without any actual reasoning, evidence, or logic.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>This is based on an inability to read the thread, and your complete failure to think the way an actual fighter in a skirmish situation thinks. That you fail to be immersed is your affair. As normal you respond just saying the same thing over and over again, failing to take the other person's perspective into account.</p><p> </p><p>And hit points aren't abstraction. Wound thresholds are an abstraction. Hit points are flatly disassociated. If they were the abstraction you claim, they would <em>slow you down</em>.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>And you explicitely played all versions of D&D in a way that from your own statements is directly contrary to the way Gygax played. Because you have made your own chimera in your head as to what D&D is. A chimera that <em>does not include Gygax's play</em>. And doesn't include 4e play either.</p><p> </p><p>And that you played them all in the same way should be a source of shame and a demonstration that you don't understand how games work, not a source of pride. They are all distinct games with different focusses and strengths. For instance the 1e XP for GP rule really changes the encouraged playstyles because it changes what the game rewards. 3.X magic is ludicrously overpowered and this warps the game.</p><p> </p><p>If you play them all the same way then that demonstrates that you simply do not understand what the rules are there to encourage and their effect on the game. It means that <em>at most</em> you understand one of the versions of D&D. And warp and spindle the other versions to fit this style.</p><p> </p><p>(My guess would be that it's late 2e drifting into 3.0 that you understand. Because you plainly don't get 1e - and 3.X works if you play it as if it was 2e with extra detailed process sim; it's when you start treating 3.X as an entity in its own right it fails.)</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Mine is based on what people actually say and consequences of rules. I have linked primary sources. I have explained rules and philosophies. You on the other hand have kept repeating the same points over and over again as if the world was necessarily the way you thought it was. There has, as I can see, never been the slightest chance of productive discussion with you as you are unwilling to even countenance the possibility that you might be objectively wrong in lots of places (as you are).</p><p></p><p>Goodbye. I shall not be reading your posts in future.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><strong>Mod Note:</strong> See my post below. ~Umbran</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5998557, member: 87792"] [color=red][B]Mod Note:[/B] See my post below. ~Umbran[/color] You mean we actually examine statements and check that they are true? And don't allow you to get away with evasions? Yeah, that's really like politicians. ...says the person claiming Gygax intentionally wrote a process sim. You can't play 4e the way he wrote D&D. But that doesn't make it a bad game. 4e doesn't even make the pretense of being oD&D - it is its own entity and Gygax could have treated it on its own merits. 3.X failed at many things Gygax said were important. Balance being an obvious one. But as normal, you present just an unsupported assertion without any actual reasoning, evidence, or logic. This is based on an inability to read the thread, and your complete failure to think the way an actual fighter in a skirmish situation thinks. That you fail to be immersed is your affair. As normal you respond just saying the same thing over and over again, failing to take the other person's perspective into account. And hit points aren't abstraction. Wound thresholds are an abstraction. Hit points are flatly disassociated. If they were the abstraction you claim, they would [I]slow you down[/I]. And you explicitely played all versions of D&D in a way that from your own statements is directly contrary to the way Gygax played. Because you have made your own chimera in your head as to what D&D is. A chimera that [I]does not include Gygax's play[/I]. And doesn't include 4e play either. And that you played them all in the same way should be a source of shame and a demonstration that you don't understand how games work, not a source of pride. They are all distinct games with different focusses and strengths. For instance the 1e XP for GP rule really changes the encouraged playstyles because it changes what the game rewards. 3.X magic is ludicrously overpowered and this warps the game. If you play them all the same way then that demonstrates that you simply do not understand what the rules are there to encourage and their effect on the game. It means that [I]at most[/I] you understand one of the versions of D&D. And warp and spindle the other versions to fit this style. (My guess would be that it's late 2e drifting into 3.0 that you understand. Because you plainly don't get 1e - and 3.X works if you play it as if it was 2e with extra detailed process sim; it's when you start treating 3.X as an entity in its own right it fails.) Mine is based on what people actually say and consequences of rules. I have linked primary sources. I have explained rules and philosophies. You on the other hand have kept repeating the same points over and over again as if the world was necessarily the way you thought it was. There has, as I can see, never been the slightest chance of productive discussion with you as you are unwilling to even countenance the possibility that you might be objectively wrong in lots of places (as you are). Goodbye. I shall not be reading your posts in future. [color=red][B]Mod Note:[/B] See my post below. ~Umbran[/color] [/QUOTE]
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