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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6006680" data-attributes="member: 22779">But, it hit and did MAXIMUM damage.  It says so right there in the rules.  A critical hit does max damage.  But, despite all that, suddenly the player turns around and says, no, that hit did no damage to me.  The character can't do anything here.  After all, in the absence of the CS mechanics, that hit would do max damage.  Did the fighter suddenly, magically gain DR?  After all, DR is a magical ability in 3e.  Why isn't this a problem?Note, the damage is rolled BEFORE CS dice, not after.  The player knows EXACTLY how much damage he's going to take before declaring that he will use a CS die.  If he chooses, he can allow any attack to deal regular damage, or he can retcon the damage with CS dice.  How can the character choose this?It get's even wonkier with more dice.  Fighter hits bad guy.  Decides to toss in one extra die of damage.  The extra die doesn't kill the bad guy.  The player then decides to toss in another CS die and adds a trip effect to the damage.  Note, none of this has to be declared before the attack.  It can't be actually, since the player needs to know if he hits before applying CS dice.On and on.  The player can, one at a time, continue to pile on effects after the fact, so long as he has CS dice.Or, if you want to get REALLY dissociated, put two fighters against each other.  Fighter A bumps damage, Fighter B reduces damage, Fighter A spends a die to Push Fighter B back 10 feet.  Note, this was all done on a SINGLE attack.  What, now we enter Bullet Time from Matrix whenever two fighters fight?  We have to telescope time beyond a single round to resolve all the actions for these two characters?  How is this not dissociated?  After all, this would never occure between two different characters.If the CS dice gave you a bump in AC before the attack came, I'd see your point about no retcon.  But it doesn't.  It comes AFTER the attack is resolved.  There is no way that this is not dissociated.  It's time travel rewrites of things that have occurred in the game.  The player is making decisions all the way along that the character cannot possibly make.I think what this example illustrates, more than anything else, is people's willingness to ignore dissociation is directly related to whether or not they like the mechanic.  IOW, dissociated claims are nothing more than claims of preference and not an actual reflection of the mechanics themselves.</blockquote>

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