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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6016394" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>This doesn't follow at all. A significant amount of magic items are going to be what in MMO terms are referred to as "Vendor Trash". Things like the fighter's old +1 sword that we replaced when he found a +2 (unless he had it enchanted because he had 6000 GP lying around in which case the whole argument goes away). Or an enemy's +1 sword we took from a corpse and no one wanted. This is especially true if we levelled up rather than started at level 8. </p><p> </p><p>So there will almost certainly be enough cash floating around - and being a wizard you don't get first dibs on the items. The only armour you want is a Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt - anything else can go to someone else or to the vendor trash pile. You don't want a weapon (other than a crossbow). The wizard isn't even first in line for most of the items he can use other than spellbooks, scrolls, pearls of power, and int boosters - +resistance items and even +constitution items go to the people most likely to be targetted first. And crafters can make the most use out of raw gold, so they on need alone get most of the vendor trash.</p><p> </p><p>Your entire argument here exists in isolation. It exists in isolation of the normal practice of levelling up, and it exists in isolation of the party working together.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Oh, it's a bit smaller. But the fighter actively needs more kit as well. The wizard's armour comes to 7500GP total (+1 Mithral Twilght Chain Shirt, +1 Mithral Small Shield) if he's not just going with Mage Armour.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Con, possibly. AC - I don't think so. If the wizard is taking lots of attacks something badly wrong and a point of AC won't help that much. If the wizard <em>isn't</em> taking lots of attacks, who cares?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>A wizard? Alternatively they just aren't wearing armour. By level 8, party carrying capacity shouldn't be much of an issue - after all a small Bag of Holding costs 2500GP to buy, or you can get a Handy Haversack for 2000GP. (Or just make one of the above at level 9).</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No. I've chosen to focus on my spellcasting and my skills. Because I'm a wizard. Improving Int improves my skill list - the knowledges. It improves the number of skills I get. It improves the number of spells I get. It literally improves almost everything I do to contribute to the party.</p><p> </p><p>I have spent that improves my spell DCs and doesn't improve everything else I might want to do as a wizard. No other stat improves me as a wizard. No other stat improves my spellcraft. No other stat improves my knowledge skills. One other stat improves my ability to cast spells - and that only very very marginally (con for Concentration).</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No. It's directed at making me a better wizard. I have spent <em>one feat </em>specifically on my spell DC. I am not "pushing the envelope as far as I can". If I'd been doing that I'd have had Greater Spell Focus and an Int 20. I suppose problems can arise if I decide to play a spellcaster who wants to learn to cast spells better. </p><p> </p><p>Int is useful to literally <em>everything</em> a wizard does. The only possible reason to not want to raise your Int before anything else is if your Con is an odd number.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>As a player I <em>am</em> moderating. I haven't twinked out my Save DCs. I've directed one portion of my character's development to get better at what he practices. I'm more moderate than the fighter with the barbarian with a +2 sword, Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2, Power Attack, Cleave, and who's put his stat boosts into strength and/or con. He's spent more gold than me on something far less flexible. He's spent more feats than me on just the ability to Hit Stuff Hard.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6016394, member: 87792"] This doesn't follow at all. A significant amount of magic items are going to be what in MMO terms are referred to as "Vendor Trash". Things like the fighter's old +1 sword that we replaced when he found a +2 (unless he had it enchanted because he had 6000 GP lying around in which case the whole argument goes away). Or an enemy's +1 sword we took from a corpse and no one wanted. This is especially true if we levelled up rather than started at level 8. So there will almost certainly be enough cash floating around - and being a wizard you don't get first dibs on the items. The only armour you want is a Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt - anything else can go to someone else or to the vendor trash pile. You don't want a weapon (other than a crossbow). The wizard isn't even first in line for most of the items he can use other than spellbooks, scrolls, pearls of power, and int boosters - +resistance items and even +constitution items go to the people most likely to be targetted first. And crafters can make the most use out of raw gold, so they on need alone get most of the vendor trash. Your entire argument here exists in isolation. It exists in isolation of the normal practice of levelling up, and it exists in isolation of the party working together. Oh, it's a bit smaller. But the fighter actively needs more kit as well. The wizard's armour comes to 7500GP total (+1 Mithral Twilght Chain Shirt, +1 Mithral Small Shield) if he's not just going with Mage Armour. Con, possibly. AC - I don't think so. If the wizard is taking lots of attacks something badly wrong and a point of AC won't help that much. If the wizard [I]isn't[/I] taking lots of attacks, who cares? A wizard? Alternatively they just aren't wearing armour. By level 8, party carrying capacity shouldn't be much of an issue - after all a small Bag of Holding costs 2500GP to buy, or you can get a Handy Haversack for 2000GP. (Or just make one of the above at level 9). No. I've chosen to focus on my spellcasting and my skills. Because I'm a wizard. Improving Int improves my skill list - the knowledges. It improves the number of skills I get. It improves the number of spells I get. It literally improves almost everything I do to contribute to the party. I have spent that improves my spell DCs and doesn't improve everything else I might want to do as a wizard. No other stat improves me as a wizard. No other stat improves my spellcraft. No other stat improves my knowledge skills. One other stat improves my ability to cast spells - and that only very very marginally (con for Concentration). No. It's directed at making me a better wizard. I have spent [I]one feat [/I]specifically on my spell DC. I am not "pushing the envelope as far as I can". If I'd been doing that I'd have had Greater Spell Focus and an Int 20. I suppose problems can arise if I decide to play a spellcaster who wants to learn to cast spells better. Int is useful to literally [I]everything[/I] a wizard does. The only possible reason to not want to raise your Int before anything else is if your Con is an odd number. As a player I [I]am[/I] moderating. I haven't twinked out my Save DCs. I've directed one portion of my character's development to get better at what he practices. I'm more moderate than the fighter with the barbarian with a +2 sword, Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2, Power Attack, Cleave, and who's put his stat boosts into strength and/or con. He's spent more gold than me on something far less flexible. He's spent more feats than me on just the ability to Hit Stuff Hard. [/QUOTE]
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