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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arnwyn" data-source="post: 2504664" data-attributes="member: 7701">Like I said, no magic items.Irrelevant to the original premise. I'm just looking for insight based on what people think might occur (especially if it's based on one's experience - though, of course, not based on any experience based on this specific example, which is unlikely). Just an idea based on what a high-level lich relied on more than others.Woo!Exactly so. My original estimation is that he would be about CR 16 (as opposed to CR 20) with no magic items.The final battle showdown is likely in a large-sized crypt (maybe 100' x 60') with a 15' high ceiling. The person the PCs are seeking will be found there, and the lich will refuse to give up that person at all costs.The lich has been, for the last 500 years, a glorified babysitter.The lich won't know the PCs are coming until the PCs arrive. He will not be fully prepped for combat (though there will be a decent amount of combat spells prepared), and spell selection will be a wide mix of combat, divination, and movement.Thanks for everyone's views so far. The multiplicity of opinions have given me good concept of what I might be able to expect, and what is 'survivable' for a party of four 12th level characters in situations I might not otherwise have thought of. Good stuff!</blockquote>