Wizard alternate class features -- OK or too much?

[Perun]

A player in my Eberron game wants to introduce a new character to the party, an elf wizard (transmuter). I'm generally a pretty lenient DM (well, I like to think I am ), and although I gave the players a list of books that are OK to use in the game, I still allow bits from other books, but on a case-by-case basis.

The said player would like to use both the Focused Specialist alternate class feature (from PHII, I believe) and Immediate Magic (from CM -- it might be that it's the other way around). He's also planning to take levels in the Escalation Mage PrC (from Faiths of Eberron).

I'm slightly wary about letting him have both alternate features, as I've had the opportunity to see a regular (PH) wizard played till 13th level, and I've seen how brutally effective the class can be, being as it has a single primary stat (Intelligence, of course), and how it can afford to raise it sky-high very early in the game. The said player's character would have Int 21 at 5th level (whereas the next highest stat in the party is 17).

The party is built with 32 point-buy method. New characters have the option to be built with 32 points and start one level below the party average, or with 28 points and start at the party average level. The said player chose the latter. The rest of the party is Warforged Warblade 5, Human Psychic Warrior 5, Human Rogue 5, and Human Cleric 5. The party is pretty standard, using mostly just the PH (or their respective class books -- Bo9S for the Warblade and XPH for the PsyWarrior) and maybe a thing or two from another book (the Warblade, for example, has one or two skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel.

Basically, I'm trying to prevent the situation where one character outshines the others. It's a pain from both the other characters and me. Most of the various options look pretty harmless on the paper, but it's different in actual game play, and a wizard (especially) is pretty tough to appraise in such situations.

So, comments and advice are pretty much welcome and hoped for

Thanks in advance.

Regards.

 

[eamon]

Seeing as part of the wizards power (which can become, subjectively, "overpowering") is his flexibility, the focused specialist seems rather weak. Such a caster will know transmutation, divination, and only three other schools, needing to give up three schools...

If he's going to max out Int, his greatest benefit to a particular school will come from high save DC's - which suggests schools such as enchantment, evocation, and perhaps illusion. That would mean no abjuration, no conjuration (ouch), and no necromancy. I wouldn't get worried about power here.

And what's worse for him; he actually loses a general spell slot (gaining two transmutation slots). That might sound like an OK trade, but realize that it means that when he first gains a new spell level (and has only at most two slots, usually), he can cast only one non-transmutation spell (at most, and only if he has a high-enough int!) per day at that spell level. A wizard get's 4th level slots at 7th level, but even at 10th level, this wizard has 3 base slots, (3base+1bonus-1focused), and three transmutation slots.

Flexibility is important; I think this isn't unbalanced.

 

[Perun]

Seeing as part of the wizards power (which can become, subjectively, "overpowering") is his flexibility, the focused specialist seems rather weak. Such a caster will know transmutation, divination, and only three other schools, needing to give up three schools...

If he's going to max out Int, his greatest benefit to a particular school will come from high save DC's - which suggests schools such as enchantment, evocation, and perhaps illusion. That would mean no abjuration, no conjuration (ouch), and no necromancy. I wouldn't get worried about power here.

Actually, the player's dumping Illusion, Enchantment, and Necromancy.

And what's worse for him; he actually loses a general spell slot (gaining two transmutation slots). That might sound like an OK trade, but realize that it means that when he first gains a new spell level (and has only at most two slots, usually), he can cast only one non-transmutation spell (at most, and only if he has a high-enough int!) per day at that spell level. A wizard get's 4th level slots at 7th level, but even at 10th level, this wizard has 3 base slots, (3base+1bonus-1focused), and three transmutation slots.

The character, as a Focused Transmuter 5 with Int 21 would have (from 0 to 3rd level spells): 3+3/4+3/2+3/1+3 spells per day (with DC 15 + spell level).

Flexibility is important; I think this isn't unbalanced.

Duly noted

Thanks!

 

[nittanytbone]

I think its fine.

The character still doesn't have as many spells per day as a sorcerer "blaster" might, but they aren't quite as limited either.

Imagine a spectrum. The folks on the left are best at "nova" tactics in that they tend to have the most potent abilities, but the fewest times per day. The folks on the right have fewer limits on their powers/day but each round they put out less hate and discontent on the target.

Generalist Wizard <--> Specialist Wizard <--> Focused Specialist Wizard <--> Sorcerer <--> Warlock

 

[irdeggman]

The character, as a Focused Transmuter 5 with Int 21 would have (from 0 to 3rd level spells): 3+3/4+3/2+3/1+3 spells per day (with DC 15 + spell level).

How does a 5th level character (elf) using a 28 point point buy end up with a 21 Int?

Using point buy (without house-rules) - you can't start with an ability score above 18 (before racial modifiers).

Elves in Eberron have the same modifers as the ones in the PHB (+2 Dex, -2 Con).

At 4th level you can add 1 to Int (ability adjustment for 4th level) - but that still only gives a maximum of 19.

To start with an 18 takes 16 of the 28 points available. Since all ability scores start at an 8 (-2 modifier) before spending points, the character will have some severe modifier penalties.

Adding in the -2 Con for being an elf means that the player would have to start with at least a 14 to have no hit point penalty. That costs 6 points.

So to have an 18 Int and a 14 Con that is 22 of the 28 points off of the top.

If using Str as a dump stat remember to account for encumbrance.

If using Dex as a dump stat remember to account for the ranged attack penalty (applies to ray spells too).

If using Wisdom as a dump stat - well that is what happens with the Wil save. Psionics will really have an impact on this one.

If using Cha as the dump stat - make sure to account for any encounter modifiers (an Eberron game should have a lot of these, especially if happening in Sharn)

Really in 3.x there is no true dump stat available any more - everything has a use and penalties can really, really be painful.

But simply combining the two variants doesn't seem overpowering to me.

 

[Elethiomel]

How does a 5th level character (elf) using a 28 point point buy end up with a 21 Int?

Grey elf. 18+2 (racial) +1 (level) = 21.
Or, 18 +2 (item) +1 (level) = 21.
Edit: Or even Grey Elf, 16 +2 (racial) +2 (item) +1 (level) = 21

To start with an 18 takes 16 of the 28 points available. Since all ability scores start at an 8 (-2 modifier) before spending points, the character will have some severe modifier penalties.

8 is a -1 modifier.

Adding in the -2 Con for being an elf means that the player would have to start with at least a 14 to have no hit point penalty. That costs 6 points.

Having no hit point penalty only requires a 12 CON -2 racial = 10. 10 has a modifier of 0.

So to have an 18 Int and a 14 Con that is 22 of the 28 points off of the top.

Or 20. Yes, it's still a lot.

If using Str as a dump stat remember to account for encumbrance.

A Wizard doesn't really need more than a spell component pouch and a Heward's Handy Haversack.

If using Dex as a dump stat remember to account for the ranged attack penalty (applies to ray spells too).

Not to mention AC - but remember that all elves have a +2 racial modifier so even if you start with 8 before racial modifiers, you have 10 with racial modifiers and thus no penalty there.

If using Wisdom as a dump stat - well that is what happens with the Wil save. Psionics will really have an impact on this one.

Except that Wizards have a good Will save, and hence the character's Fort and Ref saves will lag behind at level 5.

If using Cha as the dump stat - make sure to account for any encounter modifiers (an Eberron game should have a lot of these, especially if happening in Sharn)

If another member of the party is doing the talking, the Wizard can stand at the back and pick their nose.

 

[javcs]

To get the 21 Int, he could also be starting at a higher age category - tanking his physical stats, but wizards don't really care about their physical stats.

Let's, see we can assume that the 4th level stat boost went into Int, therefore, we only need to get 20 from race, age, and base stats. Grey elf is likely, giving us +2, requiring 18 from base stats and age, age modifiers can give us between +1 and +3 to our mental stats, greatly reducing the points needed for Int.

 

[Perun]

Or, 18 +2 (item) +1 (level) = 21.

This, indeed, is the case. The character is choke-full of dump "stats" (Str 8, Dex 9, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 9 before any racial modifiers, which are standard elf modifiers: +2 Dex, -2 Con), but it fits the character's story. Besides, it's point buy, and the player know minimums and maximums. I don't allow subraces in Eberron (so no grey elves), and I'm also firmly against characters starting at higher age categories. The character bought headband of intellect +2 and put the level-increase in Int.

Regards.

 

[irdeggman]

This, indeed, is the case. The character is choke-full of dump "stats" (Str 8, Dex 9, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 9 before any racial modifiers, which are standard elf modifiers: +2 Dex, -2 Con), but it fits the character's story. Besides, it's point buy, and the player know minimums and maximums. I don't allow subraces in Eberron (so no grey elves), and I'm also firmly against characters starting at higher age categories. The character bought headband of intellect +2 and put the level-increase in Int.

Regards.

I was wrong on the penalty for an 8 ability score and didn't account for magic items.

But regardless - you have plenty of places to 'target' the character where he is weak. This is not to imply that you should be "going after" specific characters, only that you have planty of areas where this character will be weaker and those should be accounted for when considering "balance" issues.

His initiatve, AC and Spot checks will all suffer due to his "choices" (giving up a familiar hurts when using Wis as a "dump" stat).

Even with a Haversack (should be considered mandatory equipment for a character with an 8 Str) - it won't take much to reach encumbrance penalties. Any weapons and cash on hand, as well as spell component pouches and potions and scrolls (readily accessable) will get you there fairly quickly.

Sounds like the player is willing to play the PC based on weaknesses (as you said it is included in his back story) so go with it, it should be fun.

 

[notjer]

The said player would like to use both the Focused Specialist alternate class feature (from PHII, I believe) and Immediate Magic (from CM -- it might be that it's the other way around). He's also planning to take levels in the Escalation Mage PrC (from Faiths of Eberron).

This is one of the reason to me which makes the a wizard my favorite class. They are very flexible when it comes to chose a path, there are rules for nearly any wizard concept you can imaging. I think it's cool.

Basically, I'm trying to prevent the situation where one character outshines the others. It's a pain from both the other characters and me. Most of the various options look pretty harmless on the paper, but it's different in actual game play, and a wizard (especially) is pretty tough to appraise in such situations.

I heard about it but never tried it myself, however if this is very likely to happen then you should try to make the other shines too imo. I don't think it will be a problem if they are decent players. If any problems occur then talk with him and maybe the party.