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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5045776" data-attributes="member: 82106">Huh? Where did 3.5e come into this? My argument is simply that no new capability was created. stunlock existed in PHB-only. It existed after AV1 (which is really 95% of what you'd be complaining about here). You can do it about 5-6 levels earlier than you could before. OTOH the real issue wasn't even total guaranteed stunlock, it was the fact that if ANY level of orbizard with a WIS 20 hits ANY key monster with say sleep then its down to a 50/50 shot the monster is knocked down for a while. Once you hit even 8th level in just PHB those odds are high enough to be a serious problem for the DM's encounter design because any time your solo is totally out of action for 2-3 rounds the encounter is shot. There are numerous things wrong with that picture and  OoI is only one of them. Its an aspect of the game that has broken mechanics. Its worthless to complain there is power creep related to it when it was seriously broken IN THE FIRST BOOK.In any case the whole debate is fairly pointless and off topic. If players are willing to not be abusive with their orb builds or are willing to run a fairly nerfed orb wizard via house rules (which can still be interesting) then all the stuff in AV1 really doesn't do anything worth getting worked up about.</blockquote>