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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5046450" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, its tempting to say that AV1 is practically core given the fact that it contains a lot of stuff that it is really hard to do without and seems to have established the baseline for what has followed. Technically its not core but playing without it entirely is pretty limiting. Considering it was the first supplement and was in the store practically from day one I actually find it kind of hard to even compare with PHB1 ONLY as there are very few people that have actually played that way.It would be impossible to say that the AV1 superior weapons aren't better than the PHB military weapons but then again with only military weapons available the whole weapon proficiency mechanic was largely useless as an upgrade from longsword to bastard sword was not worth a feat. The only classes that would ever bother with it pre-AV1 were STR clerics grabbing bastard or great sword or an occasional character that wanted a bow or just plain wanted a specific weapon for RP reasons.I really do not at all fathom your argument DancesWithMasks. How many options there are is different thing from power creep entirely. There are yes now a LOT more builds that are able to be as powerful as the best builds, but the best builds that you could make on day one are STILL right up there with any of them and not hugely different from what they were to start with. Maybe you weren't around charops at the start of 4e. There was plenty of wacky goodness/cheese there right from day one. And like I say, there WAS a slight shift in character baseline power, but it really was almost entirely a feature of AV1 and can best be considered a design decision. I guess you can call that power creep though personally it seems more like the game just settling into its groove to me.</blockquote>

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