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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Danceofmasks" data-source="post: 4642264" data-attributes="member: 70765">@MadLordOfMilk I think your method of comparison is flawed.For any non-dex or int based class, saying average main attack stat is 18 is a fair assumption.For any dex or int based class, since their main stat also affects AC and reflex (+initiative for dex) as well as hitroll and damroll, the average main attack stat should be 20.Since int or dex are so heavily unbalanced, they're worth 5 points in any secondary stat. So elven wis wizards are not trading 1 will for 1 ref, they're trading 4 will for 2 ref, 2 hitroll, 2 damroll, and 2 AC.Now, wizards make more hitrolls and damrolls than any other class, so elven wizards must be considered solo-shutdown specialists, but otherwise sub-optimal.(To be fair, wis based skills are awesome, and that's a selling point, but I reckon it's far from a wash) Now, being in the thick of things happens all the time to a wizard.Staying back and blasting isn't really an option when thunder wave is their AoE at-will. Wizards with scorching burst have more options.For those who would counter that epic characters have less need of their at wills ... well, if the party is kitted for offense (i.e. multiple 20-attack stat characters), that is sometimes true.Heck, I've one-manned supposedly really tough encounters with a single evard's (mainly 'cos my hitroll is nigh-maxed, and them foes never got to get out after making their saves before being re-grabbed via sustain).9x9 zone ... the party just stood at the edge ... with some clever placing and using fellow PCs as a barricade, foes can't get out. Just thunder wave them further in occasionally and you're all set.Int 16 elf wizards cannot successfully do this. Surprise hitrolls can also come from elsewhere ... for instance, my L25 wizard is a tiefling.Hellfire blood adds hit/dam for all fire effects, including my stun-lock power (prismatic spray).Tieflings also get +1 to hit vs. any bloodied creature.If I were a divine oracle, that's be a roll twice ... but IMO +4 hitroll with two powers (battle mage - if AP used at beginning of turn) is hands down better ... 'cos wizards don't have that many good powers targeting will. I understand that my tiefling is definitely not an average wizard.It's downright disgusting ... the average wizard, which has int 20 at level 1, is sub-optimal by comparison.</blockquote>

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