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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MadLordOfMilk" data-source="post: 4642475" data-attributes="member: 77691">Every stat effects a defense. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> Reflex is important but it's far from the only defense... hell, Will effects tend to be the ones that suck the most, but are admittedly less common than Reflex attacks afaik. However, the fact that it affects AC is definitely a boon. As far as +1 initiative IF it's dex... well, the value of that isn't anything crazy, but admittedly useful. If your character doesn't have a ton of use out of +init, then really the edge from it is just +AC. Saying that's worth doubling the point buy cost (1 ac) is debatable. OK. But no. Taking exactly the same point buy from one race to the other, that's -2 to the stat, not -4, which is only -1 to the modifier. So it's +3 Will -1 Ref -1 hit -1dmg -1AC, and a bonus to all the WIS effects on the Wizard's powers (more squares pushed by thunderwave, orb is more effective, &c). But yeah, the net difference is that... though you also have to keep in mind that some powers add WIS mod for damage though (IE cloud of daggers), so it's not a direct loss of dmg mods (though it isn't as common certainly). Nonono, I meant literally standing in the fray to get combat advantage from flanking like you mentioned. Of course everyone's going to get attacked. Though, with thunderwave + arcane reach + resounding thunder, it's a 4x4 area that you can cast originating from 2 squares away, so it's not like you'd have to be right next to the targets either, and hitting makes them go even further away.OKReally? But is that more an effect of having min/maxed hit where losing 1 or 2 kills it, or the actual net loss every time you lose 2 attack bonus? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> I could argue the same thing about losing 1 or 2 killing lockdown with the orb. 16 WIS wizards can't do it without items, 18 WIS needs to take demigod. There are plenty of nice powers that attack will defense. Legion's Hold and Prismatic Spray are two huge, huge examples. Particularly the first one. There's also Prismatic Beams, Sleep, Prismatic Burst, &c... Confusion is also useful, but situational... Oh, of course that's not your average example, I wouldn't expect your typical Wizard to pull that off. BTW, can you PM me the build or the character's current stats at your level? Or I guess post it as it is relevant, because this post has more or less turned into "can an optimized WIS-focused Wizard compare to a typical INT-focused optimized build (IE yours).</blockquote>

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