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Wizard vs Fighter - the math
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9164516" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Sure; I've never said otherwise and have even explicitly said such things before. But let's not shift the Overton window over this; that the past situation was absolutely horrible, but is not currently absolutely horrible, does not mean that the current situation is therefore perfectly acceptable.</p><p></p><p>Going from being $10,000 in debt to being $500 in debt is a huge improvement, exactly 95% in fact. But you're still in debt. One can be immensely thankful for not being in a horrible position, while still frustrated that one remains in a bad position.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly. Even if it's a <em>lot</em> less, as in my example above, that does not necessarily make it right.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly.</p><p></p><p>One of the big talking points all during the 5e playtest was that Fighters would rule the roost in combat, and others would make sacrifices from combat in order to get other things instead. Wizards to even be able to <em>keep up</em> with Fighters while still having some room for other stuff too? That blows that whole idea completely out of the water. It means that, in the context of groups which run only a few/short fights per day (contradicting 5e assumptions and instructions), mostly against groups of enemies rather than single "boss" types (which actually conforms to 5e instructions), the Wizard can quite easily be 80%+ of the Fighter's combat strength <em>and also</em> provide non-combat utility effects.</p><p></p><p>People very frequently described this, back in the Next playtest, as Fighters being a 10 in Combat and a 1-2 in exploration or the like, while Wizards would be a 5-6 in combat and a 7-8 outside it. The numbers here demonstrate that a Wizard <em>without subclass</em> can quite easily be an 8-9 in combat AND a 7-8 outside it.</p><p></p><p>And, as you say, the 5.5e playtest is now considering giving Wizards even more nice things--making every spell they know just a minute away if it wasn't already prepared. Here's hoping that gets yeeted into the sun, because if it is included, it straight-up invalidates any "there is no Batman Wizard" argument one might make.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9164516, member: 6790260"] Sure; I've never said otherwise and have even explicitly said such things before. But let's not shift the Overton window over this; that the past situation was absolutely horrible, but is not currently absolutely horrible, does not mean that the current situation is therefore perfectly acceptable. Going from being $10,000 in debt to being $500 in debt is a huge improvement, exactly 95% in fact. But you're still in debt. One can be immensely thankful for not being in a horrible position, while still frustrated that one remains in a bad position. Exactly. Even if it's a [I]lot[/I] less, as in my example above, that does not necessarily make it right. Exactly. One of the big talking points all during the 5e playtest was that Fighters would rule the roost in combat, and others would make sacrifices from combat in order to get other things instead. Wizards to even be able to [I]keep up[/I] with Fighters while still having some room for other stuff too? That blows that whole idea completely out of the water. It means that, in the context of groups which run only a few/short fights per day (contradicting 5e assumptions and instructions), mostly against groups of enemies rather than single "boss" types (which actually conforms to 5e instructions), the Wizard can quite easily be 80%+ of the Fighter's combat strength [I]and also[/I] provide non-combat utility effects. People very frequently described this, back in the Next playtest, as Fighters being a 10 in Combat and a 1-2 in exploration or the like, while Wizards would be a 5-6 in combat and a 7-8 outside it. The numbers here demonstrate that a Wizard [I]without subclass[/I] can quite easily be an 8-9 in combat AND a 7-8 outside it. And, as you say, the 5.5e playtest is now considering giving Wizards even more nice things--making every spell they know just a minute away if it wasn't already prepared. Here's hoping that gets yeeted into the sun, because if it is included, it straight-up invalidates any "there is no Batman Wizard" argument one might make. [/QUOTE]
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