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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 9174524" data-attributes="member: 6801845">There is no way to replicate a wizard repeatedly casting Wall of Stone without taking martial characters in a completely different direction that it seems that most people do not want.&nbsp; That doesn't mean martial characters can't contribute, they've contributed plenty out of combat in the games I've played.It's okay with people because people accept that different PCs have different roles.&nbsp; If you want a PC that has the capabilities of a wizard, nothing stops you from playing a wizard.&nbsp; But let's take your fortifications idea.&nbsp; Yes, the wizard can make a wall of stone, but does it have a solid foundation? It will last for a bit, but if sappers can easily make it collapse then it doesn't really matter.&nbsp; Meanwhile that fighter with stonemason as part of their background can help figure out where to put the wall, or how to build a foundation.&nbsp; Of course stonemason isn't unique to the fighter but that doesn't change anything.&nbsp; If contributing outside of combat is important, the player can always figure out ways to do it, they don't need specific class-exclusive options.&nbsp; Perhaps the fighter has a better grasp of battlefield tactics and where to put emplacements, maybe they're spending their time training the locals to defend themselves, etc..I'm struggling to come up with examples though because none of this has never come up in a memorable way were specific spells were a turning point in any campaign I've ever played.&nbsp; So you really answer your own question - people don't care about hypothetical advantages because they remain hypothetical.&nbsp; There was one instance I remember where the cleric used stone shape to make structures for people to live in.&nbsp; But end of the day?&nbsp; It really didn't matter, it was more the player showboating about how cool they were.&nbsp; Nobody else cared.&nbsp; D&amp;D rarely gets to the level of detail where making dormitories via magic vs by more traditional construction techniques really matter.So many of these supposed benefits remain firmly in the hands of the DM and group.&nbsp; If the DM is setting up scenarios where the wizard can utilize spells to do cool things, the DM can also figure out ways people without that Wall of Stone can also contribute.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 9174524, member: 6801845"] There is no way to replicate a wizard repeatedly casting Wall of Stone without taking martial characters in a completely different direction that it seems that most people do not want. That doesn't mean martial characters can't contribute, they've contributed plenty out of combat in the games I've played. It's okay with people because people accept that different PCs have different roles. If you want a PC that has the capabilities of a wizard, nothing stops you from playing a wizard. But let's take your fortifications idea. Yes, the wizard can make a wall of stone, but does it have a solid foundation? It will last for a bit, but if sappers can easily make it collapse then it doesn't really matter. Meanwhile that fighter with stonemason as part of their background can help figure out where to put the wall, or how to build a foundation. Of course stonemason isn't unique to the fighter but that doesn't change anything. If contributing outside of combat is important, the player can always figure out ways to do it, they don't need specific class-exclusive options. Perhaps the fighter has a better grasp of battlefield tactics and where to put emplacements, maybe they're spending their time training the locals to defend themselves, etc.. I'm struggling to come up with examples though because none of this has never come up in a memorable way were specific spells were a turning point in any campaign I've ever played. So you really answer your own question - people don't care about hypothetical advantages because they remain hypothetical. There was one instance I remember where the cleric used stone shape to make structures for people to live in. But end of the day? It really didn't matter, it was more the player showboating about how cool they were. Nobody else cared. D&D rarely gets to the level of detail where making dormitories via magic vs by more traditional construction techniques really matter. So many of these supposed benefits remain firmly in the hands of the DM and group. If the DM is setting up scenarios where the wizard can utilize spells to do cool things, the DM can also figure out ways people without that Wall of Stone can also contribute. [/QUOTE]

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