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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9183434" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Alternatively, as I have been saying, you didn't do the work to justify the action.This fits perfectly with my &quot;beyond the horizon&quot; description. From the players' perspective, they had no reason to believe that they hadn't faced off against whatever was meaningfully dangerous in the area. Nothing informed them of what was going to happen. Hence, they felt frustrated--felt their trust had been betrayed--when they learned only after the fact that areas they believed &quot;cleared&quot; could actually be swarming with dangers.You saw it as, &quot;Well, sure, they killed SOME stuff there, but just because they've walked through doesn't mean they've picked it clean with a fine-toothed comb.&quot; In other words, you saw their &quot;horizon&quot; as being effectively just whatever teeny-tiny paths they had walked through that territory. The vast bulk of it remained unseen, and thus untouched, and thus (potentially) full of creatures.They didn't. They saw it as &quot;alright, that hex is now no longer beyond the horizon. We know what is there. We've seen it and dealt with it.&quot;It is, in fact, your responsibility to inform the players of the things they should know, including what their characters should know, and yes, sometimes, even including things which seem so brain-meltingly, bone-deep obvious that even a sleep-deprived five-year-old with a bad fever should know it at first glance. You are their one and only information source. What you don't tell them, they can't know.Hence: You have to do the work to justify this stuff. Something diegetic is of course preferable, e.g. a grizzled old vet telling them the lay of the land, and saying, &quot;Jus' remember, kiddos, where ye find five stirges, ye find five hunnerd. Unless ye plan t'clear erry last nook an' cranny, bes' be prepped t'fight goin' out and comin' back, erry time.&quot; With that one bit of dialogue, you'd be telling them &quot;don't believe you're safe just because you went through somewhere once.&quot; Now, you can also just say that non-diegetically, but I find most players really get in the mood more when you use diegetic methods instead.Using &quot;shady&quot; methods to dodge around this essential part of DM skill is a crutch. And the more you use a crutch you don't actually need, the harder it is to walk without it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9183434, member: 6790260"] Alternatively, [I]as I have been saying[/I], you didn't do the work to justify the action. This fits perfectly with my "beyond the horizon" description. From the players' perspective, they had no reason to believe that they hadn't faced off against whatever was meaningfully dangerous in the area. Nothing informed them of what was going to happen. Hence, they felt frustrated--felt their trust had been betrayed--when they learned [I]only after the fact[/I] that areas they believed "cleared" could actually be [I]swarming[/I] with dangers. [I]You[/I] saw it as, "Well, sure, they killed SOME stuff there, but just because they've walked through doesn't mean they've picked it clean with a fine-toothed comb." In other words, you saw their "horizon" as being effectively just whatever teeny-tiny paths they had walked through that territory. The vast bulk of it remained unseen, and thus untouched, and thus (potentially) full of creatures. They didn't. They saw it as "alright, that hex is now no longer beyond the horizon. We know what is there. We've seen it and dealt with it." It is, in fact, your responsibility to inform the players of the things they should know, including what their characters should know, and yes, sometimes, even including things which seem so brain-meltingly, bone-deep [I]obvious[/I] that even a sleep-deprived five-year-old with a bad fever should know it at first glance. You are their one and only information source. What you don't tell them, they can't know. Hence: You have to do the work to justify this stuff. Something diegetic is of course preferable, e.g. a grizzled old vet telling them the lay of the land, and saying, "Jus' remember, kiddos, where ye find five stirges, ye find five hunnerd. Unless ye plan t'clear erry last nook an' cranny, bes' be prepped t'fight goin' out [I]and[/I] comin' back, erry time." With that one bit of dialogue, you'd be telling them "don't believe you're safe just because you went through somewhere [I]once[/I]." Now, you can also just say that non-diegetically, but I find most players really get in the mood more when you use diegetic methods instead. Using "shady" methods to dodge around this essential part of DM skill is a crutch. And the more you use a crutch you don't actually need, the harder it is to walk without it. [/QUOTE]

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