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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 2666595" data-attributes="member: 13966">A low-level monk will generally mop the floor with a low-level wizard the majority of the time; but then, at low levels, there's always the chance Mr. Monk might fail a save against Sleep, at which point Mr. Wizard could walk up to him and deliver a coup de grace with a Shocking Grasp or something (possibly as part of an unarmed strike, taking penalties for nonproficiency and normal damage, since the monk's AC while sleeping is probably just 10, since he'd be lying prone while asleep and thus granting +4 to the wizard's melee attack roll).At high levels (after the wizard gains access to Contingency), the wizard will almost certainly win every time.  No matter what the monk does, the wizard will probably have a Contingency up that teleports him away as soon as the monk gets too close or strikes him, even if the monk sneaks up or uses Abundant Step/Empty Body and has surprise.  Then the wizard just casts his defensive spells, plus maybe another and more offensive Contingency, and teleports back to demolish the monk with Time Stop and Finger of Death and stuff.The 20th-level wizard, built to slay high-save enemies and resist most save-requiring effects himself, would probably look something like this in 3.0 using core rules; 3.5 or non-core would only complicate matters more and unnecessarily.  Human with the feats: 1 combat casting, 1 iron will, 1 scribe scroll, 3 great fortitude, 5 still spell, 6 lightning reflexes, 9 spell focus (evocation), 10 silent spell, 12 spell focus (necromancy), 15 spell focus (transmutation), 15 quicken spell, 18 spell penetration, 20 heighten spell.  Concentration skill checks would be through the roof, so no point trying to stop Mr. Wizard through grappling unless the enemy's a colossal dragon or something with massive Str and BAB, which a core monk most certainly would not be.  I'll assume, since 25 point buy results in rather lame wannabe-heroes, 32 point buy or equivalent rolls.  Base scores of 8 str, 14 dex, 16 con, 18 int, 8 wis, 8 cha.  Modified scores of 8 str, 20 dex (gloves of dexterity +6), 22 con (amulet of health +6), 34 int (5 increases from level advancement, +5 inherant from the appropriate tome, headband of intellect +6), wis 8, cha 8.  Cloak of resistance +5.  Total saves of +19 Fort, +18 Ref, +18 Will.  Spell save DCs would be 22 + spell level, and an extra +2 for the three spell focus schools (so total DC of 33 for each 9th-level evocation, necromancy, and transmutation spell).His opponent: Human monk 20.  Only relevant feats for this comparison are Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Blind-Fight, Run, and Power Attack.  Stunning Attack may or may not help.  Base scores of 14 str, 15 dex, 15 con, 16 wis, 8 cha.  Modified scores of 14 str, 24 dex (gloves of dexterity +6, +3 inherant from manual), 24 con (amulet of health +6, +3 inherant from manual), 24 wis (5 level increases, +3 inherant from tome), 8 cha.  Cloak of resistance +5.  Total saves of +26 Fort, +26 Ref, +26 Will (+28 vs. enchantments).  Also wearing Winged Boots and a Ring of Feather Falling, just in case.  Chances of saving against the wizard's spells: against one of the wizard's best spells (DC 33), the monk will need a roll of natural 7 or higher, a 30% chance of failure.  Spell Resistance of 30 means the wizard, with Spell Penetration, will need to roll a natural 8 or higher with each spell in order to even force the monk into attempting a saving throw; so a separate 65% chance of the monk even needing to attempt a saving throw at all.While the monk will only occasionally be affected by the wizard, he only needs to fail one save against a Heightened Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray, Disintegrate, or the like, and then he's dead.  The wizard will be able to Dimension Door or Teleport away each time the monk gets too close, and will likely have Stoneskin, Displacement, Mirror Image, Mage Armor, Shield, Shapechange, and such active anyway, so the monk's attempted attacks will be all but useless.  The monk will more than likely fail a save at some point while trying to grab or hit the wizard.  If he does manage to hit the wizard or get ahold of him, the monk may have a tiny chance of victory.  The wizard will likely resist or negate Stunning Attack or Quivering Palm due to Shapechange or simply his good saving throws (monk's SA or QP DC would be something like 27, so the wizard would only need a natural 8 or higher to resist, anyway).  The monk could always follow the wizard if Mr. Wizard goes ethereal, but the monk couldn't follow him if the wizard chose to Teleport or Plane Shift away.  The monk's Improved Evasion would hardly matter with all the wizard's save-or-die spells (and save-or-be-neutralized-for-far-too-long-some-other-way).That said, the monk is the only melee class that would stand even the slightest chance against the Contingency-bearing wizard, if going only by the core rules (and as noted already, non-core material tends to just favor the wizard more anyway, unless you only allow non-core supplements for warrior-types).  Non-core, a full  Frenzied Berserker or Forsaker might very well be able to mop the floor with any wizard, but I'm not sure if that would always be the case.</blockquote>

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