Wizard without Knowledge(arcana)?

[Greybar]

Opinion time folks, before I screw up a player.

I ported the characters in my game from a homebrew system. One character became a Wizard, but one who was self-taught and rather intutive. The personality was not one the player and I saw as high-charisma, so Sorcerer was out.

Now by intention or mistake (I can't remember honestly), I ported him over with skill in Spellcraft, but not Knowledge(arcana).

Is it feasible for him to continue (mechanics wise) without Knowledge(Arcana). As best I can tell, most of the things he'll need are Spellcraft checks, which he'll be fine at. In non-mechanics terms he is strong on practical use of magic, but untutored in the theory. Like a musical genius who has never learned to sight-read sheet music, much less know what the circle of fifths is.

Am I missing something that will be terribly dooming for him later?

thanks for your thoughts!

John

 

[DonAdam]

If he was self taught there is no particular reason that he should have knowledge (arcana).

I look at magic in D&D like experimental physics. The D&D world responds in some way to certain stimuli. Science is an attempt to create models of those observed reactions.

A character with knowledge (arcana) would be familiar with competing paradigms for understanding magic. If it was his focus, he'd care more about the spell itself than its usefulness.

The mage without knowledge(arcana) is like an engineer. He understands the basic concepts, but can put them to work with amazing proficiency. He doesn't care about why calling is different than summoning, merely that it is.

 

[Greybar]

Don - my engineer wife might balk at your comparison, but I know what you mean.

One or thing I'll throw out - it's entirely possible this group could go to Epic levels. Certainly some of their long term opponents are of Epic proportions. I don't have the ELH, so I may be blind to aspects of that. Epic-level spells require Spellcraft rolls, not Knowledge(arcana) right?

John

 

[bret]

Epic spell research requires Knowledge: Arcana for wizards, Knowledge: Religion for Clerics, think it is Knowledge: Nature for druids.

 

[Ace32]

Epic spells require both Knowledge and Spellcraft. The knowledge (arcana) would be used in creating spells and also determines the number of Epic level spell slots you gain. Of course, I suppose it's entirely possible to be an epic caster without Epic Spellcasting.. after all, its 'just another feat'

 

[Zerovoid]

Is it feasible for him to continue (mechanics wise) without Knowledge(Arcana). As best I can tell, most of the things he'll need are Spellcraft checks, which he'll be fine at. In non-mechanics terms he is strong on practical use of magic, but untutored in the theory. Like a musical genius who has never learned to sight-read sheet music, much less know what the circle of fifths is.

How would it not be feasible mechanics wise? If he has Spellcraft and Concentration maxed out, then he has all the skills a wizard really needs. Knowledge(Arcana) doesn't have many practical uses before epic levels. Sometimes I let the wizard make checks to identify the special powers of magical monsters, but that's about it.

Most wizards I've seen have the skill, because they have to spend their skill points on something, and it seems appropriate, but I don't see how they would be hurting without it.

 

[Mordane76]

HUH?

Honestly, the first few bits of this sound kosher -- he's self-taught, like a savant, but doesn't really understand the theory. He can continue to progress like that, sure, but there will come a point where he NEEDS the advanced theories he doesn't understand to supplement his continued advancement (into Epic levels, persumably), else he'll be left improving magicks he already knows until he becomes adequately advanced in the theory (takes the Knowledge (Arcana) required for Epic Spellcasting) to advance his craft further.


As for wizards not having Knowledge (Arcana), I don't think I've EVER seen one IMCs that hasn't had almost MAX Knowledge (Arcana). We use it all the time -- I force checks on it for knowledge on arcane items, theory, magical history...

 

[Greybar]

Thanks everyone, it is quite reassuring to know that apparently there was not a spell or situation which requires a Knowledge(arcana) roll for reasonable progression.

Mordane, fortunately there is a quite skilled priestess in the group who keeps Knowledge(religion) and Knowledge(aranca) high, though not max due to the need for other skill as well.

John

 

[muhcashin]

I agree

I agree with DonAdam's analogy. Although, it's a bit different. I'd say that the self-taught wizard is the car mechanic, in other words, he knows how to make a car work, but he doesn't really understands why. Whereas the mechanics engineer would be the wizard with Knowledge[arcana]. And now the physicist knows and understands even more, but most of his arcane knowledge isn't all that useful... hehehe. Ahem, particles accelerators that measure 2km in diameter, wow that is mighty freaking useful.

BTW, words from a engineer-to-be. Still studying...

 

[Pbartender]

Re: I agree

Ahem, particles accelerators that measure 2km in diameter, wow that is mighty freaking useful.

Heh, I work at one of those... You'd be surprised at how truly little some particle physicists know and understand.

"The more college degrees you attain, the more you know about about less and less... Until finally, you know everything about nothing."

Anyway...

Another comparison could be made between a Chemist and a Chef. Both of them can bake cookies using a recepe. The Chef can tell you what ingredients make the best cookies (Spellcraft), but the Chemist can tell you why those combinations of ingredients make the best cookies (Knowledge Arcana).