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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Wizarding Rituals Are Weird (Especially When Multiclassing)
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7500958" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>So, there's not actually that much that gets weird in 5e when you multiclass, and for that I'm grateful, but spellcasting is the exception. </p><p></p><p>I came across an idea recently, that really shows how weird multiclassing can be, and it has to do with Wizards, spellbooks, rituals, and multiclassing spell slots. </p><p></p><p>It seems that, RAW, a wizard1/bard5, can add wizard spells up to level 3 with the ritual tag to their spellbook, and while they cannot prepare them, they can cast them as rituals. </p><p></p><p>Now, this isn't broken, power wise, but it also probably isn't the intention of the rules. </p><p></p><p>Relevant rules:</p><p></p><p>In the spellcasting section of the Wizard (I'm using dndbeyond, so I don't have page numbers) says, <span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">Nothing about needing to be able to cast it nomrally in order to cast it as a ritual, in fact, you explicitly don't need to prepare it, and only need to have it in your spellbook, which are the wizard's only measures of "being able to cast" a spell. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">On adding spells to your spellbook, the rules say, </span></span><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">As a level 6 multiclass caster with full spellcasting levels, you have 3rd level spell slots. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">There is no text in the rules that contradicts this, therefor, you can add up to level 3 wizard spells, provided you find them and have the time and money, and while you can't prepare them, you can cast them as rituals. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #242527"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">Criticisms I've seen about this, from a RAW standpoint, rely on the text in the multiclassing section that says, </span></span><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">However, this does not effect what you can add to your spellbook, because it does not specifically say that it does, and thus the general rule stands. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">You absolutely cannot gain higher level wizard spells when you level, but the text would have to specifically call out learning spells by finding them, and even though it uses a ranger/wizard as the example, it does not make any such distinction. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">Just a fun little thing you can do by RAW, that isn't powerful enough to break anything, so I'd allow it as DM. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Roboto'">Bonus topic: The Ritual Caster feat is better for ritual casting spells from a given class than multiclassing into the class. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, but it is kinda weird, right? If you are a rogue4/wizard2, you can't learn rituals for wizards above level 1, but if you are a rogue6 with Ritual Caster, you can learn 3rd level rituals. </span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7500958, member: 6704184"] So, there's not actually that much that gets weird in 5e when you multiclass, and for that I'm grateful, but spellcasting is the exception. I came across an idea recently, that really shows how weird multiclassing can be, and it has to do with Wizards, spellbooks, rituals, and multiclassing spell slots. It seems that, RAW, a wizard1/bard5, can add wizard spells up to level 3 with the ritual tag to their spellbook, and while they cannot prepare them, they can cast them as rituals. Now, this isn't broken, power wise, but it also probably isn't the intention of the rules. Relevant rules: In the spellcasting section of the Wizard (I'm using dndbeyond, so I don't have page numbers) says, [COLOR=#242527][FONT=Roboto] Nothing about needing to be able to cast it nomrally in order to cast it as a ritual, in fact, you explicitly don't need to prepare it, and only need to have it in your spellbook, which are the wizard's only measures of "being able to cast" a spell. On adding spells to your spellbook, the rules say, [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#242527][FONT=Roboto] As a level 6 multiclass caster with full spellcasting levels, you have 3rd level spell slots. There is no text in the rules that contradicts this, therefor, you can add up to level 3 wizard spells, provided you find them and have the time and money, and while you can't prepare them, you can cast them as rituals. Criticisms I've seen about this, from a RAW standpoint, rely on the text in the multiclassing section that says, [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Roboto] However, this does not effect what you can add to your spellbook, because it does not specifically say that it does, and thus the general rule stands. You absolutely cannot gain higher level wizard spells when you level, but the text would have to specifically call out learning spells by finding them, and even though it uses a ranger/wizard as the example, it does not make any such distinction. Just a fun little thing you can do by RAW, that isn't powerful enough to break anything, so I'd allow it as DM. Bonus topic: The Ritual Caster feat is better for ritual casting spells from a given class than multiclassing into the class. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, but it is kinda weird, right? If you are a rogue4/wizard2, you can't learn rituals for wizards above level 1, but if you are a rogue6 with Ritual Caster, you can learn 3rd level rituals. [/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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