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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4977702" data-attributes="member: 22779">May I ask, DannyA, how many players and NPC's do you typically have in your group?Whoops, I think there was a miscommunication there somewhere.  I said three FIGHTER types, a cleric, wizard and thief.  Not three wizard types.That archetype, combined with much lower hit points, meant that wizards could sit back and not contribute to a given fight and it didn't matter all that much.Heck, take a 2nd level 1e party vs an ogre.  The ogre has 4+1 HD, meaning it's got, on average 19 hit points.  It also does about 10 points of damage per round, if it hits, which, with a THAC0(yeah, I know 1e, but they still had THAC0 then) of about 16 (I'm running from memory here, so my numbers are probably a bit off.The ogre probably won't even drop a 2nd level fighter in a given round.  It will likely need two rounds.  Meanwhile, the fighter types are doing d12 points of damage to it from their longswords.  Three attacks plus the cleric means that probably 2 hits per round.  Ogre dies in the second round most of the time and the party might get away without any damage if their lucky, or a cure light wounds amount of damage being fairly likely.  Note, the thief and the MU sat back and watched this fight.Compare this to a 3.5e 2nd level party squaring off with the ogre.  Mr. Ogre now has 29 hit points on average (50% more) and does 2d8+7 points of damage (and has reach possibly giving it some extra attacks.  It's got a pretty decent chance of dropping the 2nd level fighter types and the cleric or the rogue had better be VERY careful.  Yeah, they will probably win, but there's a very, very good chance of outright PC death.</blockquote>

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