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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 4987053" data-attributes="member: 82504">Less often = crapshoot I mentioned.Dex bonuses didnt start kicking in until you had very high attributes... people used to 4e with 12 actually meaning something different than 10 would be confused by having to wait till the very high end (attribute values 15+) to see actual bonuses.The die rolls during character creation were also an incredibly significant part of that crap shoot. It was very easy not to have Dex on a fighter high enough to boost it.Well I can't compare 3e ...but it was indeed also ridiculously easy to obliterate PC's if you werent blessing them with super extreme attributes in AD&D at level 1 (and the fighters attacks could not hit two at a time no cleaves unless they were 2nd level and attacking 2 zero levels for instance.)  A relatively normal  roll 4 take the highest three 16 str ,11 int, 15 con, 14 dex, 13 wiz, 12 cha  is a very average pc fighter who got +1 on hp and +1 on to hit (and +2 damage?)  no garantee on bonus armor class or hp at all. -- I am operating on memories from back in the very early 80's.And the above character could have still had 2 hp and die so easily.Some people came up with even nicer than 4d6 take highest three. For instance doing that plus re roll all ones started to become common. Win the attribute or hitpoint dice lottos and you were a little more survivable... but the good news was most people threw away characters some if you didn't have 2 attributes 16 or better and i seen some just plain dice cheating.  I saw DMs see one rolled on hit points and said.... nyeah reroll that please.18 strength was common and 16 dex was common and 14/16 con was common  but not necessarily because the game rules said they should be. House ruling to give everyone max level one starting hp became common too.An AD&D fighter without winning the dice lotto or cheating at it took 2 hits to go down(or only 1). Thief, Magic User, Cleric went down to 1 hit which with poor armor class (for the non cleric) would likely be 1 attack. Of course you had what? three choices in character creation so one dies boom make another.</blockquote>

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