Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 4987517" data-attributes="member: 32536">I wouldn't say that anything other than a pure Divine caster works anywhere near as well. Sure, other classes can almost make up for the healing difference (though they never get the really good healing spells), but something like a UMD Rogue can never make up for the lack of a Cleric's ability to use status restoration effects like Remove Disease, Restoration, or the extremely valuable Raise Dead and Resurrection. Even a secondary healer like a Bard can't remotely make up for the loss of a Cleric when it comes to condition restoration. If the PCs are fighting things that inflict curses, use poison, spread disease, and inflict ability score damage, which are all pretty common in 3E, then a Cleric is necessary.See? You are agreeing with me here. 4E has elements that make a dedicated healer a bit less necessary. Of course, the fact that 4E makes all the condition restoration spells which force a team to have a Cleric into Rituals also helps a lot. Now, if you have a party member who is suffering from a disease, any party member with the Ritual Casting feat can help.You are equating things that are not remotely the same. 3E requires a Rogue. 4E requires a character trained in the Thievery skill. Those are very different things. Sure, it may be a bit harder to deal with traps in 4E if you don't have a character with the Thievery skill, but there are several classes that have it as a class skill, anyone can get trained in it at the cost of only one feat, and all uses of the Thievery skill can be done untrained barring DM fiat. Compare this to the following quote from the 3.5E SRD: "Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to find traps..". If you want to find and disarm traps in 3E, you need a Rogue, but literally anyone in 4E can do the same with just a few skills.This brings up a point regarding Clerics and Leaders. Sure, a 4E team needs a Leader about as much as a 3E team needs a Cleric (it may not be strictly necessary, but it really, really helps), but a Cleric and a Leader are not equivalent to each other. In 3E, you really need either a Cleric or one of the few other full Divine casting classes (which all strongly resemble the Cleric), but in 4E you only need a class that fills the Leader Role, which is a broad category of classes of which many are very different from the Cleric. In 3E, the more a class with healing magic is different from the Cleric, the less effective of a healer it is, but all 4E Leaders have a solid baseline of healing capability.I honestly don't care whether you call these things requirements or guidelines, but there is a massive difference in how limiting they are. 3E requires or strongly recommends specific classes, and 4E only really asks that you have one character's class be chosen from a reasonably large list and that at least one character has the Ritual Casting ability. That is the central point.</blockquote>

Verification