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Wizards, nerfed or not?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ahglock" data-source="post: 4631839" data-attributes="member: 56725"><p>I think they needed a nerf, and I don't argue that. Though I do think the needed nerf is not that much in raw power, but in the power of unusual combinations or a handful of broken spells. Also in 3e they didn't think through charged items IMO. I think in 3e a wizard could be totally balanced in quite a few games because the players have no desire to play them to there full potential. </p><p></p><p>If you are not designing a super mage, and you aren't playing the 15 minute work day, or charged item take over every roll man, or the somehow always improved invisible, flying whatever else, or scry, buff, teleport etc. They work out fairly well, though I think the save mechainc tilted save or dies into a too favorable position. </p><p></p><p>That is a lot of ifs, and a game should try to correct things so you don't have all those ifs. 4e Heavily nerfed the mage in comarison to 3e, heck I think all classes were nerfed under that comparison. They may have powers, and maneuvers now, but it still takes a lot longer to drop an orc. I don't care if its a level 3 limit break that calls meteors down from the sky with your sword, if it only does 10% of a average foes HP, and my 3e full attack did 50%, well you've been nerfed. </p><p></p><p>I think comapritve to the other 4e classes the wiard got a raw deal. The least important role, whcih classes from other roles frequently do better, weak damage, freindly fire, way too much reliance on me picking the right groups of enemies, with the right tactis. Oh and your specialty is getting rid of the nuisances that aren't much of a threat, while other people take down the boss. Maybe minions change at high levels but so far they may hit just as reliably as other foes, but they don't hit very hard. The damage they always do damage is frequently the minimum damage done from the rest of the enemies on the field. </p><p></p><p>Still all those ifs of mine are gone and the balance is fairly close.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahglock, post: 4631839, member: 56725"] I think they needed a nerf, and I don't argue that. Though I do think the needed nerf is not that much in raw power, but in the power of unusual combinations or a handful of broken spells. Also in 3e they didn't think through charged items IMO. I think in 3e a wizard could be totally balanced in quite a few games because the players have no desire to play them to there full potential. If you are not designing a super mage, and you aren't playing the 15 minute work day, or charged item take over every roll man, or the somehow always improved invisible, flying whatever else, or scry, buff, teleport etc. They work out fairly well, though I think the save mechainc tilted save or dies into a too favorable position. That is a lot of ifs, and a game should try to correct things so you don't have all those ifs. 4e Heavily nerfed the mage in comarison to 3e, heck I think all classes were nerfed under that comparison. They may have powers, and maneuvers now, but it still takes a lot longer to drop an orc. I don't care if its a level 3 limit break that calls meteors down from the sky with your sword, if it only does 10% of a average foes HP, and my 3e full attack did 50%, well you've been nerfed. I think comapritve to the other 4e classes the wiard got a raw deal. The least important role, whcih classes from other roles frequently do better, weak damage, freindly fire, way too much reliance on me picking the right groups of enemies, with the right tactis. Oh and your specialty is getting rid of the nuisances that aren't much of a threat, while other people take down the boss. Maybe minions change at high levels but so far they may hit just as reliably as other foes, but they don't hit very hard. The damage they always do damage is frequently the minimum damage done from the rest of the enemies on the field. Still all those ifs of mine are gone and the balance is fairly close. [/QUOTE]
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