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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6555715" data-attributes="member: 177">Right.&nbsp; Humans leave lunch penned up and waiting, and that makes the wolves the unwise ones? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; Pot calling the kettle black, there.And we probably need to hold off worrying about whether they, collectively, are &quot;noble&quot; until we ourselves generally fit that bill, no?&nbsp;&nbsp; They are animals, they interact with their environment as best they can.&nbsp; Thinking them unwise or ignoble for how they interact with us, when we are the ones largely in control of their environments, seems rather self-centered on our part.&nbsp; Beyond that I won't go, as it may be deemed political by some.Humans have a tendency to idolize everything - for good or ill.&nbsp; The characterization as a noble creature has about as much truth as the characterization as a dark and dangerous beast.&nbsp; However the characterization as noble or wise doesn't come from our forgetting the threat - cultures that have been more at risk from wolves, who had a very clear idea of the threat, have still had a fairly positive view of them.&nbsp; There was a period of time in which Europeans (and related places, like the USA) had a very adversarial view of the natural world - it was us humans vs everything natural, the world was present to be tamed and exploited, and anything that didn't follow the plan was an affront to human superiority.&nbsp; As we have come to see that we cannot do just as we darned well please, we've had to return to have a better understanding of wild animals, and then we see more of what we consider positive qualities that we were ignoring previously.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6555715, member: 177"] Right. Humans leave lunch penned up and waiting, and that makes the wolves the unwise ones? :) Pot calling the kettle black, there. And we probably need to hold off worrying about whether they, collectively, are "noble" until we ourselves generally fit that bill, no? They are animals, they interact with their environment as best they can. Thinking them unwise or ignoble for how they interact with us, when we are the ones largely in control of their environments, seems rather self-centered on our part. Beyond that I won't go, as it may be deemed political by some. Humans have a tendency to idolize everything - for good or ill. The characterization as a noble creature has about as much truth as the characterization as a dark and dangerous beast. However the characterization as noble or wise doesn't come from our forgetting the threat - cultures that have been more at risk from wolves, who had a very clear idea of the threat, have still had a fairly positive view of them. There was a period of time in which Europeans (and related places, like the USA) had a very adversarial view of the natural world - it was us humans vs everything natural, the world was present to be tamed and exploited, and anything that didn't follow the plan was an affront to human superiority. As we have come to see that we cannot do just as we darned well please, we've had to return to have a better understanding of wild animals, and then we see more of what we consider positive qualities that we were ignoring previously. [/QUOTE]

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