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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6555773" data-attributes="member: 177">Except that really, dogs look like wolves.&nbsp; All the characteristics you find in dogs can also be found in wolves.&nbsp; We have just bred to change the prominence of some features.&nbsp; One can take how you worded this as a touch of a Freudian slip that kind of points out that we tend to forget that, as if dogs were something completely separate from wolves, when they can often still interbreed.Humans are animals.&nbsp; If anything has led to our misunderstanding of the animal kingdom, it is the idea that we aren't animals.&nbsp; Heck, this has led to even greater misunderstanding of ourselves!Well, consider for a moment the loaded term &quot;virtue&quot; for a moment.&nbsp; What makes a trait or behavior virtuous?&nbsp; For example - doing what one must to feed and protect one's family.&nbsp; This is virtuous when a human does it, but not when a wolf does it?&nbsp; Really?Remember my statement above that we are animals.&nbsp; We look at animals, and see a mixture of what we'd call virtues and vices. How is that at all different form looking at a human?You know that our perceptions of wolves from only a few decades ago were wrongity-wrong, with wrong sauce, right?&nbsp; I mean demonstrably, scientifically wrong?&nbsp; Our perceptions of wolves (including perhaps most notably the concept of an &quot;alpha wolf&quot;) were highly influenced by the observations of Rudolph Schenkel, who studied wolves back in the 1930s and 40s.&nbsp; Unfortunately, he studied them in captivity, and incorrectly assumed that what he saw applied in the wild.&nbsp; However, what he observed was a captive group of unrelated individuals shoved together against their will, when in the wild wolves move in family groups, and have much different social dynamics.&nbsp; Scientists continued to observe wolves through the filter of his mis-characterizations for decades.&nbsp; David Mech wrote a book in 1970 that echoed many of these misconceptions, but after further observation in the wild, Mech himself now rues the fact that book is still in print, for how misguided it was.&nbsp; Science eventually gets it right, but it can take decades, and then longer to wipe misconceptions from the general populace.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6555773, member: 177"] Except that really, dogs look like wolves. All the characteristics you find in dogs can also be found in wolves. We have just bred to change the prominence of some features. One can take how you worded this as a touch of a Freudian slip that kind of points out that we tend to forget that, as if dogs were something completely separate from wolves, when they can often still interbreed. Humans are animals. If anything has led to our misunderstanding of the animal kingdom, it is the idea that we aren't animals. Heck, this has led to even greater misunderstanding of ourselves! Well, consider for a moment the loaded term "virtue" for a moment. What makes a trait or behavior virtuous? For example - doing what one must to feed and protect one's family. This is virtuous when a human does it, but not when a wolf does it? Really? Remember my statement above that we are animals. We look at animals, and see a mixture of what we'd call virtues and vices. How is that at all different form looking at a human? You know that our perceptions of wolves from only a few decades ago were wrongity-wrong, with wrong sauce, right? I mean demonstrably, scientifically wrong? Our perceptions of wolves (including perhaps most notably the concept of an "alpha wolf") were highly influenced by the observations of Rudolph Schenkel, who studied wolves back in the 1930s and 40s. Unfortunately, he studied them in captivity, and incorrectly assumed that what he saw applied in the wild. However, what he observed was a captive group of unrelated individuals shoved together against their will, when in the wild wolves move in family groups, and have much different social dynamics. Scientists continued to observe wolves through the filter of his mis-characterizations for decades. David Mech wrote a book in 1970 that echoed many of these misconceptions, but after further observation in the wild, Mech himself now rues the fact that book is still in print, for how misguided it was. Science eventually gets it right, but it can take decades, and then longer to wipe misconceptions from the general populace. [/QUOTE]

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