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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 1278866" data-attributes="member: 707">To be honest, I've never understood those who want to make Tumble and Casting Defensively harder, or add the opponent's BAB, just because eventually the rogue/wizard will eventually always succeed.&nbsp; The fighter's BAB means that eventually his first attack will always succeed too, but that doesn't mean we need to add his opponent's BAB to its AC to make it more difficult, does it?Skills are meant to be &quot;masterable&quot; in that eventually you will always succeed.&nbsp; I believe that the Sage used the example of tying one's shoes to illustrate this point.&nbsp; There comes a point where, no matter how many times you tie your shoes, you aren't going to fail.&nbsp; Certainly not 1 in 20 tries.&nbsp; I see no reason to deny rogues and wizards their edge if they sink enough skill points into Tumble or Casting Defensively.&nbsp; They've paid for it.And what about Improved Trip, Disarm, and Bull Rush?&nbsp; These feats negate AoOs period at the cost of a feat.&nbsp; Should they be changed to &quot;+4 to AC for the AoO&quot; instead, so those checks remain valid as well?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lord Pendragon, post: 1278866, member: 707"] To be honest, I've never understood those who want to make Tumble and Casting Defensively harder, or add the opponent's BAB, just because eventually the rogue/wizard will eventually always succeed. The fighter's BAB means that eventually his first attack will always succeed too, but that doesn't mean we need to add his opponent's BAB to its AC to make it more difficult, does it? Skills are meant to be "masterable" in that eventually you will always succeed. I believe that the Sage used the example of tying one's shoes to illustrate this point. There comes a point where, no matter how many times you tie your shoes, you aren't going to fail. Certainly not 1 in 20 tries. I see no reason to deny rogues and wizards their edge if they sink enough skill points into Tumble or Casting Defensively. They've paid for it. And what about Improved Trip, Disarm, and Bull Rush? These feats negate AoOs period at the cost of a feat. Should they be changed to "+4 to AC for the AoO" instead, so those checks remain valid as well? [/QUOTE]

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