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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5965323" data-attributes="member: 54877">I for one can't answer that question off the top of my head, because when I'm actually running 4E, I'm not thinking in those terms, or describing in those terms. For me, all the roles are bits that I used when I was reading and/or preparing the adventure. Once I've internalized those creatures, what the players are going to get described are bunch of goblins or whatever. Sure, if a goblin lurker drops off a dark staircase and stabs someone, then disappears back into the shadows, the players may know &quot;dang, a lurker goblin knifed me in the back.&quot; But at that point, it tends to become more personal for my players. What the player would actually say is something like, &quot;I'll get the little sneak!&quot; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp;Granted, once the creatures hit the table, none of us are prone to think much in terms of roles, but rather to think in terms of characterization. As with one of our &quot;social gamers&quot; I've mentioned before, her take on the fighter was not as &quot;defender&quot; but rather she absorbed the basic concept of &quot;defender&quot; with her particular halberd-wielding fighter as &quot;get in the monsters face and stay there,&quot;--and then tried to do that whenever possible. &nbsp;I guess for us it is a null question. They wouldn't think in overt terms of &quot;monster role&quot; anymore than they would dream of asking me outright what a monster's AC or hit point total was. Nevertheless, let them hit a few such creatures several times, and they will start to get a pretty decent idea of AC and hit points, if not pin it down firmly. &nbsp;This was particularly brought out to me in a run of the playtest, when my daughter, playing her first game of D&amp;D, did think somewhat in terms of AC and hit points. I was that analytical about games when I was her age, too. But note that it is the player and her background driving this, not the system. The older players in our group show no discernable difference on this question playing 3E, 4E, 5E or even non-D&amp;D systems.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5965323, member: 54877"] I for one can't answer that question off the top of my head, because when I'm actually running 4E, I'm not thinking in those terms, or describing in those terms. For me, all the roles are bits that I used when I was reading and/or preparing the adventure. Once I've internalized those creatures, what the players are going to get described are bunch of goblins or whatever. Sure, if a goblin lurker drops off a dark staircase and stabs someone, then disappears back into the shadows, the players may know "dang, a lurker goblin knifed me in the back." But at that point, it tends to become more personal for my players. What the player would actually say is something like, "I'll get the little sneak!" ;) Granted, once the creatures hit the table, none of us are prone to think much in terms of roles, but rather to think in terms of characterization. As with one of our "social gamers" I've mentioned before, her take on the fighter was not as "defender" but rather she absorbed the basic concept of "defender" with her particular halberd-wielding fighter as "get in the monsters face and stay there,"--and then tried to do that whenever possible. I guess for us it is a null question. They wouldn't think in overt terms of "monster role" anymore than they would dream of asking me outright what a monster's AC or hit point total was. Nevertheless, let them hit a few such creatures several times, and they will start to get a pretty decent idea of AC and hit points, if not pin it down firmly. This was particularly brought out to me in a run of the playtest, when my daughter, playing her first game of D&D, [B]did[/B] think somewhat in terms of AC and hit points. I was that analytical about games when I was her age, too. But note that it is the player and her background driving this, not the system. The older players in our group show no discernable difference on this question playing 3E, 4E, 5E or even non-D&D systems. [/QUOTE]

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