Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Working in the Game Mine
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5965676" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>I'm going to disagree with some other posters, here, in that I think the intended and primary use of monster roles in 4e is <em>descriptive</em>, not prescriptive. It's basically a shorthand that tells the DM what role the creature is generally most suited to play in combat (it only really applies to combat, although if the monsters have a door to bust down they'll likely look to the Brutes first to take care of it).</p><p></p><p>The matter can seem confused because of the table of HPs, AC, attack bonus and so on by role and by level in the DMG - to some this suggests that a monster of a given role and level must follow a prescribed formula. The text of the DMG, though, makes it pretty clear that some variation around these "norms" is not just allowed but expected and positively encouraged; for further evidence of this you have only to analyse published monsters against those tabulated values to see that they are frequently quite different.</p><p></p><p>The thing is, though, that carelessly applied variation can remove the descriptive value of the role and level labels. This, too, is cautioned about in the DMG. Following the monster design "guidelines", there is no reason you couldn't make a Brute with an unusually high AC, lower than usual damage and powers that tended to immobilise, slow or debuff foes attacking allies. The problem would be that what you have designed is, functionally, a Soldier rather than a Brute. Since the role is only there for your own help and guidance, and you have just given yourself a bum steer, there is really no good reason that you would do so, though.</p><p></p><p>Likewise with level. Could you design a monster that is better in all categories than the average monster of your selected role and level? Sure - but, in reality, you have just designed a higher level monster. If a DM wants to deceive him or herself and deliberately short the players, they can do that - but why would they?</p><p></p><p>First off, the article is talking about monster roles, rather than class roles - and the functions of these two things (in 4E) are very different.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, the roles for character classes are very useful for giving players a "bluffers' guide" style idea of what a class can be useful for, in combat. Given that it has value in this sense - it tells us something about what the designer had in mind when building the class mechanics - I would much rather see it included than not. Hiding stuff because it's "dangerous knowledge" that "you don't need to know" pretty much always strikes me as a dumb and frequently suspicious thing to do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 5965676, member: 27160"] I'm going to disagree with some other posters, here, in that I think the intended and primary use of monster roles in 4e is [I]descriptive[/I], not prescriptive. It's basically a shorthand that tells the DM what role the creature is generally most suited to play in combat (it only really applies to combat, although if the monsters have a door to bust down they'll likely look to the Brutes first to take care of it). The matter can seem confused because of the table of HPs, AC, attack bonus and so on by role and by level in the DMG - to some this suggests that a monster of a given role and level must follow a prescribed formula. The text of the DMG, though, makes it pretty clear that some variation around these "norms" is not just allowed but expected and positively encouraged; for further evidence of this you have only to analyse published monsters against those tabulated values to see that they are frequently quite different. The thing is, though, that carelessly applied variation can remove the descriptive value of the role and level labels. This, too, is cautioned about in the DMG. Following the monster design "guidelines", there is no reason you couldn't make a Brute with an unusually high AC, lower than usual damage and powers that tended to immobilise, slow or debuff foes attacking allies. The problem would be that what you have designed is, functionally, a Soldier rather than a Brute. Since the role is only there for your own help and guidance, and you have just given yourself a bum steer, there is really no good reason that you would do so, though. Likewise with level. Could you design a monster that is better in all categories than the average monster of your selected role and level? Sure - but, in reality, you have just designed a higher level monster. If a DM wants to deceive him or herself and deliberately short the players, they can do that - but why would they? First off, the article is talking about monster roles, rather than class roles - and the functions of these two things (in 4E) are very different. Secondly, the roles for character classes are very useful for giving players a "bluffers' guide" style idea of what a class can be useful for, in combat. Given that it has value in this sense - it tells us something about what the designer had in mind when building the class mechanics - I would much rather see it included than not. Hiding stuff because it's "dangerous knowledge" that "you don't need to know" pretty much always strikes me as a dumb and frequently suspicious thing to do. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Working in the Game Mine
Top