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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5970179" data-attributes="member: 42582">I may still be misunderstanding you, but I'm still mostly seeing an encounter design issue here.I'm reminded of an encounter I ran in 4e when the PCs were around 4th level. They were riding on a plain, and saw a number of hobgoblins on foot at a distance. So they started using (what I gather from one of my players are) Parthian tactics - letting loose a flurry of ranged attacks, then falling back on their horses. The hobgoblins had to double-run to close (giving them a movement rate of 14, vs 8 for a single move on a horse, but granting combat advantage for running), and the PCs got multiple rounds of free attacks before melee commenced.Another encounter I ran involved a black dragon coming to investigate the PCs standing on a temple portico, and them attacking it at range as it closed.Are these the sorts of encounters that you mean? If they are, then constructing them (at least as I experienced it) turns mostly on terrain features and monster selection - the hobgoblins, for example, all had the Soldier role, and no meaningful ranged attacks. (To some extent, of course, the players can choose to have the PC stake out this terrain or that, but ultimately it is the GM who has control over what NPCs/monsters, if any, turn up.)If you don't want ogres who are strong rock throwers in your encounter, isn't the easiest thing to do just not to use them?I know you're not talking about edition, but I find it hard to think about D&D monster design without thinking about the way it's actually been done over the years.With it's pack attacking gnolls, and its phalanx-forming hobgoblins, I feel that 4e does OK at marking the distinction between various humanoid tribal cultures. But I'm happy to have other designs put forward that will do the same thing.I tend to share your bafflement.Ultimately, I see role as a integrating intended combat function (by reference to which particular powers and abilities will then be designed) and level (the overall measure of toughness) by means of a series of mathematical tricks to be played with, like eg giving one monster high AC and modest hp (say, a heavily armoured hobgoblin captain - it's a Soldier) and another monster modest AC and high hp (say, a loin-cloth wearing ogre - it's a Brute) and yet another monster fewer hp but better accuracy (say, an archer - it's Artillery; or a sneak - it's a Lurker). I think that's consistent with each monster variety having its own schtick, and also with some monster varieties not filling particular roles (I don't think the MM has any gnoll or goblin soldiers, for example, nor any hobgoblin lurkers).I see "solo" and "elite" in much the same terms. Want a monster that has lots of hit points relative to its attack and defence numbers? Maybe it's an elite.What role - at least in the 4e implementation - does do is put some outer limits. Statting up a monster with a 10-point gap between its best and worst defence is starting to stretch the design parameters of the system. Likewise statting up a monster with elite-level hit points but the action economy of a single monster - this will produce grind, as the PCs belt away at a sack of hit points that can't do much in retaliation.If D&Dnext has different design goals from 4e - and bounded accuracy should make some difference - then role (if it exist at all) could probably be implemented differently, or at least with different constraints. But I think this is somewhat orthogonal to making sure monsters are flavoursome and versatile. I certainly haven't found 4e monsters lacking in versatility.</blockquote>

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