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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5970191" data-attributes="member: 42582">What are "giant levels"? I can't see that they're anything more than a mechancial construct. How is "4th level giant" signicantly different from "4th level brute"?In your sense, I can't see that BASE ogre is anything more than a mechanical construct. It has no particular meaning in the fiction that I can see (other, perhaps, than the typical ogre - but then 4e has typical ogres as well - any but the warhulk would seem pretty typical to me).4e doesn't need a BASE ogre in that sense, because it builds monsters according to different rules and mechanics. It is very easy to build an ogre monk in 4e, though - for example, I might take the Warhulk, swap its Fort and Ref (or, with a bit more thought, change <Fort 26 Ref 21 Will 21> to <Fort 23 Ref 23 Will 22>, and redescribe its two flail attacks as open hand figting. Now I have an ogre that is tough, quick, and knocks people prone with its kung fu moves. If I want to make it a bit more fancy I can give it a 1x/enc phasing power (maybe "as a move action, until the end of its turn the ogre gains phasing and can shift up to half its speed"). I wouldn't bother If it giving it self-healing - it already has a lot of hp, and doesn't really need anymore. If, in play, it would turn out to be cute to let it talk to animals, I think I can ad lib that in.As far as making monsters the same - you give them similar powers and abilities (though an ogre isn't distinguished by very much other than its flavour text - mechancially, it's just a big hitting thing!)I don't know what you mean by "without reasoning or explanation". The explanation for a Goblin Blackblade (lurker) is no different from the explanation for a Goblin Thief - it's a sneaky goblin. The explanation for a Hobgoblin Captain (soldier with leader sub-role) is no different from the explanation for a Hobgoblin fighter with a morale-boosting feat - it's a hobgoblin military leader.That's the point of my reference to the "brute academy" - whatever story you tell to explain your monster in some earlier edition, you can tell the same story in 4e. It's just that 4e doesn't ask you to build the monster by following the sequence of the story - it's not a lifepath method, its an end result method.I think you may be confusing me with Neonchameleon - I haven't said anything aobut resting and Rivendell.As for whether 4e is perfect - I've never asserted that, although this thread may not be the place to state what I think its flaws are (for what it's worth, I think its monster design is one of its stronger features).</blockquote>

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