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<blockquote data-quote="Aberzanzorax" data-source="post: 5970319" data-attributes="member: 64209">This seems like a difference in preferred style. It appears as though you prefer the encounter level to be the exciting moment, in watching a given combat develop with new things and such. I agree with you that an ogre skirmisher and kobold skirmisher will be different. That's the part I mention in the post above that 4e has monsters that are more different from one another than ever before. &nbsp;My preferred playstyle is one in which the players can learn about the world and then base expectations upon that learning, even (especially?) in combat. It may lead to less exciting combats, but perhaps there's an element of satisfaction and fulflilment that they were able to act smart on a more worldly level, rather than round to round. Dare I say, and please take this the gentlest way possible...that it may be more of a &quot;roleplaying&quot; way of addressing the problem, rather than a &quot;tactical&quot; way? (Not a dig on 4e there; that's an attempt to distinguish a difference in styles - styles that were present in 3e as well as 4e). Roleplaying isn't the best word there, but I'm struggling for a better one. &quot;Simulationist?&quot; &quot;Narrativist?&quot;... World exists independent of pcs? Gah...see? Struggling.&nbsp;Again, I think you and I are both aware of our predilictions, and neither of us is wrong in what we're shooting for...just that maybe we're shooting for different things (thrilling uncertainty versus perhaps mundane consistency).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes, I do like gotcha monsters!&nbsp;I have no problem with them. For me it's about rates of usage. If every monster is a gotcha monster, then none are. If there are no baselines for a type of monster, no set expectations, then one can't break expectations with a gotcha type.&nbsp;I'm not against rock throwing ogres per se. I'm against players walking into any given encounter with a monster they've faced several times before, and them not being able to, ahead of time, predict the majority of expected abilities and limitations of that monster. If players can do that, then those expectations can be shattered (just not too often).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aberzanzorax, post: 5970319, member: 64209"] This seems like a difference in preferred style. It appears as though you prefer the encounter level to be the exciting moment, in watching a given combat develop with new things and such. I agree with you that an ogre skirmisher and kobold skirmisher will be different. That's the part I mention in the post above that 4e has monsters that are more different from one another than ever before. My preferred playstyle is one in which the players can learn about the world and then base expectations upon that learning, even (especially?) in combat. It may lead to less exciting combats, but perhaps there's an element of satisfaction and fulflilment that they were able to act smart on a more worldly level, rather than round to round. Dare I say, and please take this the gentlest way possible...that it may be more of a "roleplaying" way of addressing the problem, rather than a "tactical" way? (Not a dig on 4e there; that's an attempt to distinguish a difference in styles - styles that were present in 3e as well as 4e). Roleplaying isn't the best word there, but I'm struggling for a better one. "Simulationist?" "Narrativist?"... World exists independent of pcs? Gah...see? Struggling. Again, I think you and I are both aware of our predilictions, and neither of us is wrong in what we're shooting for...just that maybe we're shooting for different things (thrilling uncertainty versus perhaps mundane consistency). Yes, I do like gotcha monsters! I have no problem with them. For me it's about rates of usage. If every monster is a gotcha monster, then none are. If there are no baselines for a type of monster, no set expectations, then one can't break expectations with a gotcha type. I'm not against rock throwing ogres per se. I'm against players walking into any given encounter with a monster they've faced several times before, and them not being able to, ahead of time, predict the majority of expected abilities and limitations of that monster. If players can do that, then those expectations can be shattered (just not too often). [/QUOTE]

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