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<blockquote data-quote="Steel_Wind" data-source="post: 5080889" data-attributes="member: 20741">I think that in the vast majority of FRPGs&nbsp; -- and in all D&amp;D versions in any of its various forms -- the idea that there is an underlying objective &quot;morality&quot; is unavoidable, because it is made an explicit part of the Rules of the game system, if not the setting.After all, this is a fantasy game where there are undead that despise all life &quot;just because&quot; and demons and devils who seek to expand misery, death, pestilence, slavery and the ruin of all because&nbsp; -- hey -- spreading that kind of woe is &quot;evil&quot; and that's what they do and it says so on page &quot;xxx&quot; of the Monster Manual.That is as explicit as it gets folks.To my way of thinking, there is a vast difference between 1) rationalizing on a metaphysical basis that &quot;X&quot; is sin and logically bad and spiritually &quot;evil&quot;&nbsp; and 2)&nbsp; the &quot;objective truth&quot; that there is a plane of existence called the Abyss or Hell - and the denizens of that realm are &quot;real&quot; in game terms which follow a certain moral code and grant powers to their followers and communicate with them in clear and certain terms.The game rules don't suppose that such evil may exist; to the contrary, the game rules mandate that they do, in fact, exist and explicitly set out how that &quot;evil&quot; physically mainfests, works and interacts with individuals and monsters in the game world.&nbsp; When the game rules and setting make those features a part of the rules, an objective morality -- a dividing line between good and evil -- becomes explicit and unavoidable.&nbsp; That is both one of the attractions and one of the inherent problems with D&amp;D, in my opinion. For the most part, most players consider it a &quot;feature&quot; and not a &quot;bug&quot;. YMMV.In non-D&amp;D game settings, I have drawn a distinction between &quot;bad guys&quot; and True Evil™. The bad guys may be homicidal maniacs, slavers and merciless thugs. They may be termed as &quot;evil&quot; by the societies of the setting, but that does not necessarily make them True Evil™.&nbsp; True Evil™ is reserved for those rare individuals who have communicated with and allied with infernal dark powers on an objective basis. Thus, there is a difference between someone who does an evil act, and someone who has sold his immortal soul to some dark god or demon in exchange for the granting of magical temporal power.&nbsp; A &quot;detect evil&quot; will work on the one but not the other.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Steel_Wind, post: 5080889, member: 20741"] I think that in the vast majority of FRPGs -- and in all D&D versions in any of its various forms -- the idea that there is an underlying objective "morality" is unavoidable, because it is made an explicit part of the Rules of the game system, if not the setting. After all, this is a fantasy game where there are undead that despise all life "just because" and demons and devils who seek to expand misery, death, pestilence, slavery and the ruin of all because -- hey -- spreading that kind of woe is "evil" and that's what they [B][I]do[/I][/B] and it says so on page "xxx" of the Monster [I]Manual[/I]. That is as explicit as it gets folks. To my way of thinking, there is a vast difference between 1) rationalizing on a metaphysical basis that "X" is sin and logically bad and spiritually "evil" and 2) the "objective truth" that there is a plane of existence called the Abyss or Hell - and the denizens of that realm are "real" in game terms which follow a certain moral code and grant powers to their followers and communicate with them in clear and certain terms. The game rules don't suppose that such evil [I]may[/I] exist; to the contrary, the game rules mandate that they do, [I]in fact[/I], exist and explicitly set out how that "evil" physically mainfests, works and interacts with individuals and monsters in the game world. When the game rules and setting make those features a part of the rules, an objective morality -- a dividing line between good and evil -- becomes explicit and unavoidable. That is both one of the attractions and one of the inherent problems with D&D, in my opinion. For the most part, most players consider it a "feature" and not a "bug". YMMV. In non-D&D game settings, I have drawn a distinction between "bad guys" and True Evil™. The bad guys may be homicidal maniacs, slavers and merciless thugs. They may be termed as "evil" by the societies of the setting, but that does not necessarily make them True Evil™. True Evil™ is reserved for those rare individuals who have communicated with and allied with infernal dark powers on an objective basis. Thus, there is a difference between someone who does an evil act, and someone who has sold his immortal soul to some dark god or demon in exchange for the granting of magical temporal power. A "detect evil" will work on the one but not the other. [/QUOTE]

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