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World of Design: The Lost Art of Making Things Up
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 8122303" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>I think that from one perspective. Roleplaying gamers as a group often feel much less imaginative than they did back in the AD&D days. Obviously, this subjective opinion is heavily weighted to my preferences and experiences, and is particularly focused on DMs.</p><p></p><p>To me the two things that have robbed the game of much of the imagination I'm looking for is the advent of the Adventure Path and the increased focus on the mechanics of the game. While we enjoyed certain adventures early on, the last "new" adventure I recall being really excited about was The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. We played through all of the classics back then, but the larger percentage of what we played were adventures (and sometimes world) created by the DM. More often than not that was me. That was because that was 'the way you played the game' as I learned it from Holmes Basic/AD&D and Keep on the Borderlands. Keep on the Borderlands was a huge influence because it included civilization, several unrelated encounters, a large pre-prepared dungeon, and space set aside for the DM to expand upon in that vein. And that was the key - that the DM was responsible for expanding upon any published material.</p><p></p><p>For a published adventure, such as Tomb of Horrors or Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, the expansion was in the world around the adventure (whether home-made or based off of the bare-bones World of Greyhawk). But most of the time we were also running in adventures that were created by the DM as well. Preparations were also sparse, in part because the players/PCs rarely did what was expected.</p><p></p><p>The first experience we had with what would later be an Adventure Path style approach was when we tried to play the Dragonlance modules. That didn't last very long simply because we didn't like having to try to conform to a story that had been largely determined by somebody else. While the Against the Giants that led into Descent Into the Depths of the Earth had a 'story' element, it was really just a thread. Clues that there was something more, but there really wasn't a well-defined narrative.</p><p></p><p>We felt much more at home in the Forgotten Realms where adventures were much smaller in scope, easy to drop in, but largely unnecessary and, most importantly, the <em>right</em> kind of materials were released in large amounts. Lore, lore, and more lore. Things to help make the world feel like a real, living place, but otherwise left almost entirely up to the DM and the players to provide the narrative elements. </p><p></p><p>In short, imagination was of the highest importance in this approach, especially for the DM. The downside is that the job of the DM seemed a bit nebulous, mysterious even, and largely outside of the reach from the perspective of most of the people I played with. 'I could never do what you do,' was a common comment.</p><p></p><p>The Adventure Path, of course, greatly simplified this. The DM didn't have to worry about world design or consistency, nor tying together the setting with the whims of the PCs. I know some people who loved the Dragonlance modules specifically because they could essentially play out the novels. To us, it was too restrictive, and too unimaginative. Heck, we played D&D even when we didn't. Going for a hike in the woods? We don't need dice or rules, we can do the same thing as long as the DM has a good understanding and the players trust they will adjudicate fairly (and relatively consistently with the results you'd get with dice).</p><p></p><p>2.5e (Skills & Powers/Combat & Tactics) ushered in what would be very similar to the core of 3e, with more of a focus on mechanics. Instead of imagining yourself as another person living in another world, the focus started shifting to a collection of (largely combat-focused) special abilities, and optimizing to better 'win' the game. This started shifting things more toward the game side of roleplaying game. It also encouraged the splatbook. New races, classes, abilities, etc. as a substitute for imagination. In the quest to differentiate one character from another, people wanted more choices, to mash together in different ways. At least until the 'trap' and 'optimal' combinations are discovered and posted. </p><p></p><p>Did these really rob us of imagination? Not really. You can run the same sort of game with AD&D, BECMI, 3.5e, 5e and even 4e. All of the elements are present in all of these editions, although the rulesets themselves have different levels of focus on the different aspects. Furthermore, the AP and more mechanical focus makes it a much easier game to pick up, learn, and play. </p><p></p><p>I suspect that there are still loads of people that play in a way that leans more toward what we are looking for, although maybe not all playing D&D, but their numbers are now dwarfed by the tens of thousands playing a more casual game that is closer to how they play other games - learn the rules and follow them, rather than a focus on populating and writing the stories of these people in a great imaginary world.</p><p></p><p>And that approach is, in my opinion, brilliant. For a mass market game, the 5e design is right on the money for what is a complex game different than just about any other type of game people would have played otherwise. Sure, it bears elements and similarities to complex board games, card games like MtG, and video games. Many of those elements originated in RPGs too. But RPGs can be far more open in both game play and rules than any of those other types of games. My only criticism is that perhaps the possibilities of that more imaginative and open game is not promoted as well as it could be. But the reality is that we all play at different skill levels, including our imaginative skill. I'm pretty poor at the 'acting' type of roleplaying, but that doesn't mean I lack imagination, just that particular skill.</p><p></p><p>As for things like art, visual aids, minis, and other such tools? I think they are all enhancements to spurring the imagination. They help with the immersion within the imaginary world which is only a good thing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 8122303, member: 6778044"] I think that from one perspective. Roleplaying gamers as a group often feel much less imaginative than they did back in the AD&D days. Obviously, this subjective opinion is heavily weighted to my preferences and experiences, and is particularly focused on DMs. To me the two things that have robbed the game of much of the imagination I'm looking for is the advent of the Adventure Path and the increased focus on the mechanics of the game. While we enjoyed certain adventures early on, the last "new" adventure I recall being really excited about was The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. We played through all of the classics back then, but the larger percentage of what we played were adventures (and sometimes world) created by the DM. More often than not that was me. That was because that was 'the way you played the game' as I learned it from Holmes Basic/AD&D and Keep on the Borderlands. Keep on the Borderlands was a huge influence because it included civilization, several unrelated encounters, a large pre-prepared dungeon, and space set aside for the DM to expand upon in that vein. And that was the key - that the DM was responsible for expanding upon any published material. For a published adventure, such as Tomb of Horrors or Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, the expansion was in the world around the adventure (whether home-made or based off of the bare-bones World of Greyhawk). But most of the time we were also running in adventures that were created by the DM as well. Preparations were also sparse, in part because the players/PCs rarely did what was expected. The first experience we had with what would later be an Adventure Path style approach was when we tried to play the Dragonlance modules. That didn't last very long simply because we didn't like having to try to conform to a story that had been largely determined by somebody else. While the Against the Giants that led into Descent Into the Depths of the Earth had a 'story' element, it was really just a thread. Clues that there was something more, but there really wasn't a well-defined narrative. We felt much more at home in the Forgotten Realms where adventures were much smaller in scope, easy to drop in, but largely unnecessary and, most importantly, the [I]right[/I] kind of materials were released in large amounts. Lore, lore, and more lore. Things to help make the world feel like a real, living place, but otherwise left almost entirely up to the DM and the players to provide the narrative elements. In short, imagination was of the highest importance in this approach, especially for the DM. The downside is that the job of the DM seemed a bit nebulous, mysterious even, and largely outside of the reach from the perspective of most of the people I played with. 'I could never do what you do,' was a common comment. The Adventure Path, of course, greatly simplified this. The DM didn't have to worry about world design or consistency, nor tying together the setting with the whims of the PCs. I know some people who loved the Dragonlance modules specifically because they could essentially play out the novels. To us, it was too restrictive, and too unimaginative. Heck, we played D&D even when we didn't. Going for a hike in the woods? We don't need dice or rules, we can do the same thing as long as the DM has a good understanding and the players trust they will adjudicate fairly (and relatively consistently with the results you'd get with dice). 2.5e (Skills & Powers/Combat & Tactics) ushered in what would be very similar to the core of 3e, with more of a focus on mechanics. Instead of imagining yourself as another person living in another world, the focus started shifting to a collection of (largely combat-focused) special abilities, and optimizing to better 'win' the game. This started shifting things more toward the game side of roleplaying game. It also encouraged the splatbook. New races, classes, abilities, etc. as a substitute for imagination. In the quest to differentiate one character from another, people wanted more choices, to mash together in different ways. At least until the 'trap' and 'optimal' combinations are discovered and posted. Did these really rob us of imagination? Not really. You can run the same sort of game with AD&D, BECMI, 3.5e, 5e and even 4e. All of the elements are present in all of these editions, although the rulesets themselves have different levels of focus on the different aspects. Furthermore, the AP and more mechanical focus makes it a much easier game to pick up, learn, and play. I suspect that there are still loads of people that play in a way that leans more toward what we are looking for, although maybe not all playing D&D, but their numbers are now dwarfed by the tens of thousands playing a more casual game that is closer to how they play other games - learn the rules and follow them, rather than a focus on populating and writing the stories of these people in a great imaginary world. And that approach is, in my opinion, brilliant. For a mass market game, the 5e design is right on the money for what is a complex game different than just about any other type of game people would have played otherwise. Sure, it bears elements and similarities to complex board games, card games like MtG, and video games. Many of those elements originated in RPGs too. But RPGs can be far more open in both game play and rules than any of those other types of games. My only criticism is that perhaps the possibilities of that more imaginative and open game is not promoted as well as it could be. But the reality is that we all play at different skill levels, including our imaginative skill. I'm pretty poor at the 'acting' type of roleplaying, but that doesn't mean I lack imagination, just that particular skill. As for things like art, visual aids, minis, and other such tools? I think they are all enhancements to spurring the imagination. They help with the immersion within the imaginary world which is only a good thing. [/QUOTE]
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