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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7854121" data-attributes="member: 4937">I've been trying to stand out of this because it's quibbling for the sake of quibbling, but since it's gone about like I've expected, I'll try to answer without making it even worse.So in general, most cultures believe that a person is owed a certain degree of respect without proof that they deserve it. That is, you start with the assumption that a person deserves respect and go from there. And in Western cultures in particular, there is a degree of respect that a person deserves that is inalienable as a result just of being a person. For example, in the 'The Green Mile', there is a character who attempts to treat even people on death row - people who've even lost the right to life - with respect, and the story is about the consequences of that. It's a story with a lot of traditional values and symbolism in it.And so I can agree with Umbran that it is good to respect and value people as individuals based on their inherent personhood. And I can also disagree with him that respect is more proximal to the problem than tolerance.The reason is that what we are talking about here is ultimately opinions and actions. We're talking about what happens when someone publishes an 'Oriental Adventures' book and someone is offended by that. You see once that happens, Umbran "respect of the 2nd type" is no longer the operative thing controlling ones actions. What's happened is Umbran's respect of the 1st type has gone wholly missing.And the problem is that I don't think you can or ought to demand respect of the first type. I think there will be general agreement that a person can have opinions that are not worthy of respect and can perform actions that are not worthy of respect.So then what? The problem with "multiculturalism" as an answer is that I don't think the people that use the word have seriously considered what culture is. They think culture is costumes and cuisine and things like that, and those are really only the superficial artifacts of a culture. They don't make you a member of that culture. It is as it were what comes out of you and not what goes into you that makes you a member of a culture (to paraphrase someone famous). Real culture is about opinions, beliefs, and actions and any two given cultures will be widely apart on those opinions, beliefs, and actions. Cultures are inherently incompatible.So the question is never about how we go about living with people who have our respect, because that's easy.  There is no challenge there.   The question is how we go about living with people we don't think deserve our respect, and who in turn do not respect us as we would wish.   Or in other words, what do you do if you are a Native American in Germany who discovers that there is this LARPing community of Germans dressing up in the trappings of your culture and pretending to be "Red Indians".</blockquote>

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