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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CruelSummerLord" data-source="post: 4322869" data-attributes="member: 48692">In real life, man's knowledge of science, and much of his philosophy, has changed and evolved over the centuries, to the point where our real-world society is unimaginable to someone from the Middle Ages or even the Renaissance.  And yet, your standard D&D fantasy setting continues for centuries, even millennia, without appreciable progress in science, and retaining many of the same cultural and philosophical traits it did three thousand years ago.  Some might criticize this, and I can see where they're coming from.  But I'm not sure if many worldbuilders have seriously considered the effects of genuine nonhuman cultures would have on the development of their human neighbors, and their overall effects on the development of the world.  Some considerations: -If dwarves and gnomes are spread all over the world, is it not conceivable that through cultural interchange, human cultures based on real-world societies that historically didn't have access to finished metal goods for a long time, like North American Aboriginals or Africans, might in fact have access to metalsmithing and metal instruments?  They might refuse to wear heavy metal armor for practical reasons of noise, mobility, or heat, but they could easily wield metal weapons with as much skill as any European-based civilization, and therefore be able to stand up to the orcs and goblins they might have to fight with to survive.  In real life, while some cultural interchange allowed non-European civilizations to get their hands on such things as metal cooking pots or firearms, they were never able to acquire or develop them on the scale of Europe, which led to the conquest of much of the rest of the world by the beginning of the 20th century.  Any colonizing civilization might find its job much more difficult if it has to compete with foreign cultures who match it in technology, instead of having to pit spears and primitive muskets against the latest, up-to-date weapons.  -Industrial development requires fossil fuels to be able to power a lot of the machines that are eventually created.  But what happens if a lot of that oil and coal is controlled by hill giants or orcs?  These races are unlikely to be interested in large-scale industrial development, instead using the oil to burn their cooking fires, treat their weapons and armor, and to create balls of flaming pitch to use in their catapults.  You want to develop gunpowder?  It's a pity, then, that so many of the chemicals needed to develop it on a large scale are in the hands of giants and goblins who you'll have to fight fang and claw to take it from.  You want to develop an internal combustion engine?  Gets mighty tricky if most of the oil and gas has to be saved for fighting invasion by those blasted trolls...In real life, humanity has never had to compete with other sentient races who had their own plans for these mineral resources.  If you think the struggles for it are bad in the real world, imagine how much harder it'll be to obtain large supplies of it if you have to deal with powerful nonhumans to get it...-Related to this point, humanity has had the world to itself.  Different human civilizations fight each other, sure, but they've also had time to develop tremendous scientific and intellectual advancements, especially when internal disorder is suppressed and people don't need to spend every waking moment waiting for an attack.  Europe was a savage place in the Dark Ages, with bandits and warlords everywhere, but a thousand years later the greatest source of conflict was between nations, which did not face internal disorder on nearly the same scale, giving its residents time to focus on things like philosophy and science.  Now, turn it around and consider how countries react by having to deal with the constant attacks of orcs, ogres and giants.  You need strong military power to be able to deal with these threats, which was a major factor in the rise of monarchy in Europe, as strong leaders proved able to fight back against raiders and warlords.  The need for strong, centralized leadership is not going to go away on its own.  Similarly, how much time can you seriously spend on scientific research if you're constantly at risk of being attacked?  Such things can happen, of course, but knowledge will also run a much greater risk of being lost at the hands of goblins or giants.  -Along with the knowledge of metalsmithing, for example, who's to say how human cultures will be affected by the presence of nonhumans?  The constant attacks of humanoids requires a strong military leader to fend them off, which means that strong monarchs become a popular choice.  Mayan or Aztec-inspired cultures, under the influence of their dwarven neighbors, might place a tremendous value on precious metals and gems, and develop a very strong commercial tradition, or a strong tradition of engineering and science under the influence of gnomes.  Halfling influence might lead Viking-like societies to embrace the notions of the social contract, as the halflings offer their valuable agricultural knowledge to help their human neighbors feed themselves in the harsh northern climes, while the humans protect them from the ravages of orcs and goblins.  Elven influence might lead a medieval Muslim-inspired society to have a very strong devotion to nature, incorporating it into the religious devotion that permeates the rest of their culture.  These are just a few examples, in my view, of how the presence of humans can have a huge influence on the development of a D&D world.  You have a lot of latitude to explain just why things are the way they are, in a way that your players or other observers would find believable.  I'd use it to explain why man will never learn to fly without magic, nor will he ever develop the internal combustion engine, in my version of Greyhawk, and also to explain why, fifty thousand years from now, he'll still be wielding the same broadswords and wearing the same chainmail suits he is now, and will continue to be using fifty thousand years after that.Thoughts?</blockquote>

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