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<blockquote data-quote="UngainlyTitan" data-source="post: 5416466" data-attributes="member: 28487">I don't think that I would describe either as fights. In effect in both cases the criminal(s) have a weapon that they are not prepared to use. So both are instances of failed bluff and intimidate checks.&nbsp;In the subway diner one the robber makes his initial intimidate but then takes so long in the robbery that the worker makes an insight check that he will not use the rifle and that he can bluff his way close enough to wrestle for&nbsp; the weapon.So he makes a bluff&nbsp; and intimidate check of his own when the robber is leaving.Then you have contested strength checks for control of the weapon.&nbsp;In the second case, the initial grapple is part&nbsp; of an intimidate check that fails. After that, aside from a few blows there is very little actual fight. In the case of the barman, he is playing for time and does not want to escalate it and the other two are not ruthless enough to finish it and too dumb to just cut&nbsp; their losses and run.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UngainlyTitan, post: 5416466, member: 28487"] I don't think that I would describe either as fights. In effect in both cases the criminal(s) have a weapon that they are not prepared to use. So both are instances of failed bluff and intimidate checks. In the subway diner one the robber makes his initial intimidate but then takes so long in the robbery that the worker makes an insight check that he will not use the rifle and that he can bluff his way close enough to wrestle for the weapon. So he makes a bluff and intimidate check of his own when the robber is leaving. Then you have contested strength checks for control of the weapon. In the second case, the initial grapple is part of an intimidate check that fails. After that, aside from a few blows there is very little actual fight. In the case of the barman, he is playing for time and does not want to escalate it and the other two are not ruthless enough to finish it and too dumb to just cut their losses and run. [/QUOTE]

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