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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vayden" data-source="post: 4020648" data-attributes="member: 57791">I respectfully disagree with your opinion. You enjoy a fantasy world that is predominantly human, with your extra fast elves and your cranky dwarves sprinkled in as special and different. I've played in/read a variation on that dozens of times. I'm bored and frustrated with that world, mainly because I know what to expect from it.  This by no means is meant to say that you can't have a fantastic game in that world - the story is what ultimately makes the game, as many people have pointed out. On the other hand, however awesome the story we're running at the moment is, I would enjoy myself more with that same story set in a fantasy world which doesn't live by the default rules of human history and base-line Tolkien fantasy assumptions. As a player, I want to be surprised by things - I want to go into a situation not knowing the rules. As a DM, I want to play "what if" and screw around with the world and bring the strangeness to the forefront. Why can't humans be strange and mysterious (eg the Taltos books by Brust)? Anyway, I saw a lot of back-and-forth in this thread with the "end of humans" people being defensive and the "human baseline" folks assuming their base was impregnable - the point is, is it really? No one means to deny that you can have vibrant and interesting human-based worlds (however poorly W&M worded it, I'm pretty sure they're not denying that). The point is that we've done all of that before, and the challenge for 4E is to continue to evolve D&D - let's start creating some more vibrant worlds without the crutch of safe, familiar human dominance (Planescape's a good example). We already have a ton of human-centric campaign settings that are available for people who like them (Greyhawk, FR, Ptolus, etc etc etc) - let's see if we can get some good ones without the human crutch - just because it's harder to do doesn't mean that it's wrong. (Finally, in conclusion, it should be noted that I hate all humans and came *this* close to banning them entirely in my last campaign  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ).</blockquote>

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