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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8130731" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Sure, and if you read my post, I literally called out Dyscalculia as an exception, but as you said this is incredibly rare, you are a math tutor and I'll assume you've tutored hundreds of students over the years. And you've seen it twice. And this is a specific inability to learn, this is not that certain math subjects are so difficult you need a specific ability to learn them. And even if you are struggling, that doesn't mean that you can't learn the skill. After all, I'd never say that someone who is deaf cannot make music, or someone who is blind cannot make art, because Beethoven and Monet show this to not necessarily be true. Good lord, how about Sarah Biffen. Born in 1784 with no arms or legs, she was an amazing painter who was commissioned to do the royal portraits for the British Royal Family. Are there things that humans cannot do? Sure, some people can't do somethings. But that number is far far outweighed by the sheer weight of things we can do with enough determination and desire. And if you want to convince there is something that the majority of people simply cannot learn to do, I feel you need some incredibly heavy evidence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Then how do you justify any baseline? If we approach the baseline of DnD with the idea that there are no rules, nothing concrete to base our ideas on, then how can we say anything?But you hit the nail on the head, those people aren't using spellcasting rules, because they aren't spellcasters. Since we are using Eberron, I'll pull out my Exploring Eberron book. In it there is a section on Magewrights, people who have learned to use magic. They can, potentially, learn the cantrip Aundair's Silent Sanctum, which creates a 5 ft bubble that muffles all sound going in and coming out, making it harder to hear. If a magewright has learned that cantrip, and they cast it, does it work? Yes. Does it create a 5 ft bubble? Yes. If they cast it again does it work? Yes. Does it create a 5 ft bubble? Yes. Maybe the local smith gets divine inspiration and does an act of magic once, and that is special, but if I go before Jaela Daran and she casts a spell in Flamekeep, it works. She knows what she can do, she knows how it works, she knows what is required for it to work. Magic isn't mysterious and unknowable. Casting a spell like cure wounds does not sometimes work sometimes not, sometimes create healing energy, sometimes rot flesh, sometimes require a 1st level spell slot, sometimes require a 5th level spell slot. You would have to either fundamentally rewrite the DnD magic system, or completely divorce the mechanics from the story. And I mean completely, Clerics should be terrified to attempt to heal someone on the verge of death, because they have no idea what they are doing, if it will work, or if they will make things worse. And fundamentally, that is not how DnD magic is presented. Not to the players, not by the NPCs.This sounds like you are agreeing with me.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Do you not understand what a local hero is? Here, let's say that your level 3 Fighter heads out to confront a gang. They have 31 hp, and the ability to attack once per turn. At the entrance to the gang hideout they run into three thugs hired by the local crimelord. A thug has 32 hp and attacks twice per turn.Your local hero is outmatched. Are these thugs somehow... supermen? The entry just calls them ruthless enforcers who work for money. And they certainly don't have fighter levels, but they are also more than a match for your character who is set apart from the common masses of people. Sure, you can decide to do anything with a setting. I've said that, again and again and again and again. But, if we want to talk about the baseline, what is the norm, what people should expect, then looking at the setting neutral PHB tells us that this Arcane Trickster wasn't special. They were a common thief who decided "eh, I'll learn some magic to make this easier" and did so. Maybe that makes them 1 in ten trillion in a specific setting, but the PHB doesn't treat that decision as being something that they are one of the few people in the entire world to do. The treat it like getting accosted by a gang of them wouldn't be uncommon in a big city.And being able to actually bandage a wound and heal someone with a healer's kit, something I would expect a field medic to do, also takes a feat. So, EMT and Wizard are back on the same footing. And yes, the noble statblock does not currently have spellcasting. I know that, but I also am pushing back against this idea that they should be the expectation.After all, one aspect of this conversation is that we have focused solely on humans. Spreading out our consideration, none of the "but it takes too long" arguments hold even an ounce of water for Gnomes, Dwarves or Elves. And we actually have statblock proof that important members of orc tribes have spellcasting.No it isn't, as I discussed above in this post.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Supporting evidence is not moving goalposts. You have claimed that becoming a wizard is such a long and ardrous process that a wizard could not also be trained in politics. I have now presented dozens of wizard guilds that are political actors, meaning that they are both wizards and politicians. I find it interesting that you want to disregard Ravnica though, because it was built under a different set of assumptions. Because I've been arguing that those settings we keep talking about were built in 2e, under a different set of assumptions than we have in 5e, yet I am supposed to bend the assumptions of DnD towards those second edition versions rather than the modern assumptions. And you wanted me to do so because of the number of settings older than 5e, but since everyone wants to keep claiming that setting is king... well the official settings for DnD 5e are FR, Wildemount, Ravnica, Eberron and Barovia, and that is 4/5 in much higher magic. So, I'm following the majority of setting expectations here, aren't I?</blockquote>

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