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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RenleyRenfield" data-source="post: 9479739" data-attributes="member: 7044197">There is at least a 3rd option for combat, and likely more I am forgetting.  Let's start with why each has benefits and weaknesses..."Independent" Benefit = <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">quick to resolve since only 1 person is rolling dice to determine a result.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fixed "Target Numbers" make for predictable encounters</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">decent for tactical wargame play</li> </ul>Problem = - Target Numbers are always going to have a 3-point curve of play.  From "too swingy at low level", to "its about 50/50 ok at medium level", and to "I always hit, why am I bothering to roll at all" at high level.  D&D and Cypher system is an example of this.  Where you either chase an arms race of bigger numbers and thus extend out that 50/50 zone, or you just get too high in bonuses and make rolls pointless.  "Dependent"Benefit = <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This has no inherent scale, so it can let two combatant test against each others luck and stat values(skill).  So it gives a sense of 'competition'</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It opens up the door to alternate actions for the defender.  Now we no longer have static TN to be hit, but we can use reaction to dodge, parry, riposte, counter, etc etc...   Conan/Infinity 2d20 is a good example of this</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">decent for tactical wargame play</li> </ul>Problem = <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Super hard to balance.  You get some systems where they have brought the deviation of bonuses down too low, and so a person who has never picked up a sword before has a overly reasonably chance to defeat a seasoned sword master.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the dice mechanic is swingy, then it can result in silly or boring round after round of both combatants swing and miss over and over, pointless combat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Its slow.  Each round, each action, each character gets to pick stats, pick benefits and roll dice.  A great way to bring combat to a grinding halt.</li> </ul>"Automatic" This is one that likely most players have not encountered if they have not played Apocalypse World or the like.   In this case, when it comes time for the player to announce they are engaging in combat - both sides automatically hit and do their damage.  Then the play rolls to see if that damage is altered and if any other actions occurred during the fight. Benefit = <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Its fast, super fast to resolve multiple actions and characters all with a single roll</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">its very narrative, it lets character do any action as part of their single roll</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">does not suffer from swingy dice mechanic</li> </ul>Problem = <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It's not tactical at all.  This method ensures everyone gets beat up and that the side with the most combatants (or possibly largely lopsided damages) always wins.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">its the same at any 'level', no matter how powerful a character gets, this combat method never really changes.</li> </ul>...............................IMHO- I prefer 2d20's mechanics for "Dependent" , they mix the perfect blend of dice pool and resource management to make  Roll v. Roll feel engaging and tactical - I prefer PBTA "Automatic" for everything else. It's fast, narrative, and resolves what I call "honest combat" (which is "the PCs were always going to win the fight, the GM just needed to get them a little bloody to emphasize the dangers" that all rpg's combats usually resolve as anyway... let's be honest folks... )</blockquote>

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