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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7763077" data-attributes="member: 22779">Fair enough.&nbsp; But, it's still classic good vs evil.&nbsp; Vitality vs degeneracy is just painting it with different colors.&nbsp; There's nothing about what it means to be human there.&nbsp; Conan is good because he is the barbarian and civilization is bad.&nbsp; There's no questions being asked here.&nbsp; Good is just good and evil is just evil.&nbsp; And they fight because good and evil fight.&nbsp; There's no question of doing it any other way or whether or not the fighting is even needed.&nbsp; Of course it's needed.&nbsp; Evil needs killing and Conan is there to do it.Actually, I'd say that's pretty close.&nbsp; Conan really doesn't have any more thematic sophistication than a Justice League cartoon.&nbsp; Nope.&nbsp; It's not that one is shallow or sophisticated.&nbsp; Just that they ask different questions.&nbsp; The question of good vs evil is hardly an unsophisticated one.&nbsp; Although, to be honest, this insistence on using Conan as an example of sophistication is a bit off.&nbsp; These aren't exactly the most complex of stories after all.&nbsp; Fun and interesting, but, not exactly deep.&nbsp; LotR, OTOH, is a much deeper text with all sorts of nuance.&nbsp; Good grief, entire religions are based on the conflict between good and evil.&nbsp; I'd hardly call that an unsophisticated genre.OTOH, SF always asks other questions.&nbsp; It's not, &quot;What does it mean to be good&quot; or &quot;how should we combat evil&quot;, but, rather, what is the impact of X on humanity.&nbsp; Compare the Jedi to the Bene Gesserit.&nbsp; The Jedi are pretty much space wizards who go around battling the Dark Side because the Dark Side is bad.&nbsp; Yes, there's more to it than that, but, at it's heart, it's all about what does being a &quot;good&quot; (light side) Jedi mean?&nbsp; The Bene Gesserit though, work to bring about the new Messiah.&nbsp; But, that's just the start of the story.&nbsp; The main themes after the Kawizatz Hadderach (sp) is brought about focuses on free will.&nbsp; What does free will mean in a universe where you have ultimate knowledge?&nbsp; The entire God Emperor of Dune book focuses on that one question.&nbsp; The actual plot is almost secondary.&nbsp; Heck, practically the first scene in Dune is Paul's painbox test where they are specifically testing him to see if he is human.&nbsp; Doesn't get more SF than that.Note, just to be completely honest, I've never read Wizard of Earthsea, so, I cannot comment on it at all.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7763077, member: 22779"] Fair enough. But, it's still classic good vs evil. Vitality vs degeneracy is just painting it with different colors. There's nothing about what it means to be human there. Conan is good because he is the barbarian and civilization is bad. There's no questions being asked here. Good is just good and evil is just evil. And they fight because good and evil fight. There's no question of doing it any other way or whether or not the fighting is even needed. Of course it's needed. Evil needs killing and Conan is there to do it. Actually, I'd say that's pretty close. Conan really doesn't have any more thematic sophistication than a Justice League cartoon. Nope. It's not that one is shallow or sophisticated. Just that they ask different questions. The question of good vs evil is hardly an unsophisticated one. Although, to be honest, this insistence on using Conan as an example of sophistication is a bit off. These aren't exactly the most complex of stories after all. Fun and interesting, but, not exactly deep. LotR, OTOH, is a much deeper text with all sorts of nuance. Good grief, entire religions are based on the conflict between good and evil. I'd hardly call that an unsophisticated genre. OTOH, SF always asks other questions. It's not, "What does it mean to be good" or "how should we combat evil", but, rather, what is the impact of X on humanity. Compare the Jedi to the Bene Gesserit. The Jedi are pretty much space wizards who go around battling the Dark Side because the Dark Side is bad. Yes, there's more to it than that, but, at it's heart, it's all about what does being a "good" (light side) Jedi mean? The Bene Gesserit though, work to bring about the new Messiah. But, that's just the start of the story. The main themes after the Kawizatz Hadderach (sp) is brought about focuses on free will. What does free will mean in a universe where you have ultimate knowledge? The entire God Emperor of Dune book focuses on that one question. The actual plot is almost secondary. Heck, practically the first scene in Dune is Paul's painbox test where they are specifically testing him to see if he is human. Doesn't get more SF than that. Note, just to be completely honest, I've never read Wizard of Earthsea, so, I cannot comment on it at all. [/QUOTE]

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