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Worlds of Design: Fantasy vs. Sci-Fi Part 1
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7763175" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Heh. I think this is one area we're just going to have to agree to disagree. [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], you are arguing for a depth in Conan that I'm simply not seeing. Conan is pulp fiction. It's about as deep as the average rain puddle. I think you are expanding far beyond the text. But, then again, maybe I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. Could quite possibly be.</p><p></p><p>But, in any case, genre's are best defined by their centers, not by their edges. Look at the central works that we put in a given genre and then extrapolate from there. At the center of SF you works like Asimov, Heinlein, Herbert, P. K. Dick, etc. And one of the thing that those works share in common is that they are asking different questions than fantasy does. Like you said, Tolkien is often about what makes someone evil. I'd agree with that. But, that's the point. It's a morality story. It's about good and evil. The Three Laws of Robotics aren't about good and evil, they are about ethics - what does it mean to live in a society and how does that society work?</p><p></p><p>You asked earlier about my differentiation between morality and ethics. I'd say it comes down to examples. A company that uses predatory practices to create a monopoly is ethically questionable. But, I'd hardly call them evil. We consider monopolies to be ethically bad because they restrict creativity and potentially harm the consumer by price fixing and whatnot. But, again, none of that is morally wrong. </p><p></p><p>OTOH, things like, say, slavery, is pretty much considered morally wrong. Even in societies where it was ethically acceptable - Roman empire for example - we'd still say that it was morally wrong to keep slaves.</p><p></p><p>Note, that there is a huge amount of overlap between the two. By and large things that are unethical are immoral as well. But, not always. Cheating on your taxes and moving your investments overseas to avoid paying corporate taxes is unethical. But, not really immoral. There's pretty much no moral judgement to be made here.</p><p></p><p>Thus, SF talks about ethical questions. What does free will mean in the face of ultimate knowledge (Dune Messiah, Foundation Trilogy)? What does it mean to be human in the face of robots that are virtually indistinguishable from humans (Blade Runner, Star Trek)? How do we hold on to our humanity in the face of extinction (Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica)?</p><p></p><p>These themes are often not seen in Fantasy. Not that they are never seen, of course. But, not as prevalent and typically not the central themes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7763175, member: 22779"] Heh. I think this is one area we're just going to have to agree to disagree. [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], you are arguing for a depth in Conan that I'm simply not seeing. Conan is pulp fiction. It's about as deep as the average rain puddle. I think you are expanding far beyond the text. But, then again, maybe I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. Could quite possibly be. But, in any case, genre's are best defined by their centers, not by their edges. Look at the central works that we put in a given genre and then extrapolate from there. At the center of SF you works like Asimov, Heinlein, Herbert, P. K. Dick, etc. And one of the thing that those works share in common is that they are asking different questions than fantasy does. Like you said, Tolkien is often about what makes someone evil. I'd agree with that. But, that's the point. It's a morality story. It's about good and evil. The Three Laws of Robotics aren't about good and evil, they are about ethics - what does it mean to live in a society and how does that society work? You asked earlier about my differentiation between morality and ethics. I'd say it comes down to examples. A company that uses predatory practices to create a monopoly is ethically questionable. But, I'd hardly call them evil. We consider monopolies to be ethically bad because they restrict creativity and potentially harm the consumer by price fixing and whatnot. But, again, none of that is morally wrong. OTOH, things like, say, slavery, is pretty much considered morally wrong. Even in societies where it was ethically acceptable - Roman empire for example - we'd still say that it was morally wrong to keep slaves. Note, that there is a huge amount of overlap between the two. By and large things that are unethical are immoral as well. But, not always. Cheating on your taxes and moving your investments overseas to avoid paying corporate taxes is unethical. But, not really immoral. There's pretty much no moral judgement to be made here. Thus, SF talks about ethical questions. What does free will mean in the face of ultimate knowledge (Dune Messiah, Foundation Trilogy)? What does it mean to be human in the face of robots that are virtually indistinguishable from humans (Blade Runner, Star Trek)? How do we hold on to our humanity in the face of extinction (Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica)? These themes are often not seen in Fantasy. Not that they are never seen, of course. But, not as prevalent and typically not the central themes. [/QUOTE]
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