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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8203672" data-attributes="member: 20564">Agreed that it's possible to take it to far.&nbsp; It's best in moderation - do it to streamline, stop before you oversimplify.Though a subsystem designed for a specific task has no indication that it is a better total fit then a general purpose subsystem that is well understood by the players and plays well with the rest of the mechanics so it's easy to adjudicate when different parts are applicable.&nbsp; Look at AD&amp;D 1st with everything having it's own subsystem, and not even any commonality if rolling higher or lower was better.&nbsp; Moving to 3ed where there was a universal mechanic of d20+modifiers to meet or exceed a target DC was a amazing simplification.&nbsp; And you knew how spell X would interact with context Y.&nbsp; If this gave a +2 to these type of checks, t wasn't that it wouldn't affect grappling or whatever because that was a separate subsystem and they didn't think to put in another set of &quot;oh, and here's how it interacts with yet this different thing&quot;.Even with superiour subsystems, it's still worth evaluating if they are worth their weight.&nbsp; Because proflieration of subsystems makes rules more complex which means more need to reference and less the rules getting out the way to let you play.&nbsp; It slows down play which is a huge cost.&nbsp; It may be that having these five great subsystems make combat too slow and players are waiting 20 minutes to get back to their turns and are disengaging, yet if we evaluate them and keep the three that add the most for the least weight we have a good system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8203672, member: 20564"] Agreed that it's possible to take it to far. It's best in moderation - do it to streamline, stop before you oversimplify. Though a subsystem designed for a specific task has no indication that it is a better total fit then a general purpose subsystem that is well understood by the players and plays well with the rest of the mechanics so it's easy to adjudicate when different parts are applicable. Look at AD&D 1st with everything having it's own subsystem, and not even any commonality if rolling higher or lower was better. Moving to 3ed where there was a universal mechanic of d20+modifiers to meet or exceed a target DC was a amazing simplification. And you knew how spell X would interact with context Y. If this gave a +2 to these type of checks, t wasn't that it wouldn't affect grappling or whatever because that was a separate subsystem and they didn't think to put in another set of "oh, and here's how it interacts with yet this different thing". Even with superiour subsystems, it's still worth evaluating if they are worth their weight. Because proflieration of subsystems makes rules more complex which means more need to reference and less the rules getting out the way to let you play. It slows down play which is a huge cost. It may be that having these five great subsystems make combat too slow and players are waiting 20 minutes to get back to their turns and are disengaging, yet if we evaluate them and keep the three that add the most for the least weight we have a good system. [/QUOTE]

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