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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RareBreed" data-source="post: 9042279" data-attributes="member: 6945590">In some sense, I think this gets to the heart of something missing in today's RPG'ing and gets back to Lewis's Rule #3: RPG's are meant to be "fun".  I think something can be rewarding but not fun.  Exercise, at least for me, isn't fun, but it's rewarding.  Meditation isn't fun, but it gives back more than it takes.Not all stories are "fun".  Horror stories aren't fun and neither are tragedies, and yet, many people are fascinated with them.  I think part of the reason that agency is such a hot button topic, is because subconsciously or not, the player at some level identifies with the character.  Me personally, my characters rarely stray too far from my own perspectives, because I like to think "what would I do if I were in those shoes?".I feel like gaming however has mostly become a vehicle to empower players by empowering their characters.  Because of this (unconscious or not) identification with the character we want good outcomes for the character because it reflects back in some way to the player.  In traditional story telling, there's less likelihood of self-identification with the protagonists because we are passive observers.  Gaming however allows for active participation, and in effect we the players become the characters, or at the very least we become attached to them because they are an extension of the player; an avatar of the player.  As a result, most players don't want to deal with sacrifice, loss, death, etc.  That's too much like real life for some and they don't see the value in...well...role-playing it out.That's why I think a lot of roleplaying potential is wasted.  It can be used as a safe space to explore what-ifs that we can't.  Ironically (and perhaps somewhat paradoxically), it's because of the attachment to the character that a sense of sacrifice is earned by the player.  If a player has no attachment to the character, then it's fairly meaningless to the player if their character dies or suffers some loss or indignity.I have noticed a trend in the last 40 years of gaming, that games have become more and more fantastical in nature and the characters more powerful.  Back in the 80s, we had games like Twiliight 2000, Gangbusters, Justice Inc, or Top Secret where you were basically just a regular person.  Other games had very low magic or (sometimes) rare tech, like Pendragon or Car Wars.  I'm trying to think of a game where you're just a regular human nowadays.  Even in semi-historical games like Lex Arcana, there's magic.Maybe the closest somewhat popular games out there in that vein are horror games.  The Stranger Things genre spin offs like Tales From the Loop/.Flood or Kids on Bikes make you play regular kids.  Horror games have forced characters to be weaker to play up the hopelessness or powerlessness angle.  Call of Cthulhu or Never Going Home are basically games where you can't win, because the more you fight, the more lost the character becomes (or as Nietzche would say, the more you gaze into the Abyss, the more the Abyss gazes into you).</blockquote>

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