Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Worlds of Design: Here Be Monsters
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="lewpuls" data-source="post: 9628127" data-attributes="member: 30518"><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]401488[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center"><a href="https://pixabay.com/photos/game-of-thrones-book-books-map-4180794/" target="_blank">Picture courtesy of Pixabay.</a></p><p></p><p></p><h3>Maps Are Not Destiny</h3><p>Maps are important to games, and sometimes important to novels, although there are novelists like Glenn Cook who feel that maps restrict their freedom of action too much. I’m a big fan of maps, with a bookshelf full of (mostly historical) atlases, and I’ve always played RPGs with maps.</p><p></p><p>I was surprised to learn that some people play RPGs without player maps - not even maps when they’re exploring a dungeon. Mapping for players goes from detailed on graph paper to drawings to connectivity-line diagrams to nothing at all. <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?168563-Dungeon-layout-map-flow-and-old-school-game-design" target="_blank">See this thread</a> for a more detailed discussion of maps in <strong><em>Dungeons & Dragons</em></strong>.</p><p></p><p>Remember that “the map is not the territory.” What I’m really interested in is the physical layout of an area, as shown by a map. But it’s convenient to talk about maps rather than layouts. I’ll try to generalize, but remember different points of view (e.g. that a secret door is “a dirty GM trick” versus “an opportunity to display your and your characters’ skills”). See my previous article, "<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/worlds-of-design-the-lost-art-of-being-lost.693871/" target="_blank">The Lost Art of Getting Lost</a>" for an in-depth discussion about secret doors. </p><h3>The Fun of Exploration</h3><p>What do we want in the layout/map, what makes this interesting for players?</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Alternate Routes: </strong>If there’s only one route to any particular thing, players may begin to feel like they’re “on rails” (as happens in so many video games), without a choice. Alternate routes (with differing encounters along the way) can avoid that feeling even if all of those routes lead to the same place!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Channelization</strong>: In this case the layout forces intruders such as adventurers to follow a particular route - a channel. For example, a valley between steep cliffs. It often leads to a chokepoint where some kind of defense has been established. Yes, the adventurers can decide to go back before reaching the chokepoint, but that usually achieves the goal of the defenders.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Choke points: </strong>Choke points aren’t quite the same as channelization. It’s a blockage. The choke point may be at the end of channelization, where the forced guidance of channelization leads to a particular spot. The spot may be easily defensible, or it may have a big trap. For example, there may be a fortress at the end of the channeled route.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Dead Ends: </strong>From some players’ point of view, a dead-end is a waste of time. But that happens even in modern road systems, or in box canyons in mountains. From a GM’s point of view the adventures may go down a dead-end and then some hostile creature(s) wanders along - and the characters are trapped. Or there may be a desirable location at the end of the “dead end” such as the abode of a sage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Multiple Ingress and Egress: </strong>This is typical of most structures, and most of the outdoor world. Something as modest as a private residence often has several doors in and out.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>A Sensible Layout: </strong>A large dungeon isn’t easily explained in believable terms. But it could be a fortress (which would have to be mostly underground in a magical fantasy world). I’m not convinced by the “constructed by a mad wizard” excuse. But in the fantastical gameplay style you don’t need to explain why things exist, they’re just there.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Ways to Get Lost: </strong>This was just about built into the <strong><em>original/Advanced D&D</em></strong>. Rotating rooms and one-way doors in a structure could achieve this, and some of the most memorable adventures occurred when you had trouble getting out of there. Outdoors, a landslide or bridge destroyed by weather can block the route back. But any way to get lost may be classified by some as another “dirty GM trick.</li> </ul><h3>There’s Always a Back Door!</h3><p>There are more chances for many of these features in buildings/underground than in the outdoors. Some can be used outdoors. Remember also the “wisdom of the ancients”: Players will “always” find a back door, if there is one! (At least, it’ll seem that way.) Back doors that only open from inside might be wise – though magic can defeat such things.</p><p></p><p><strong>Your Turn: What makes a map interesting to you and your players?</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lewpuls, post: 9628127, member: 30518"] [CENTER][ATTACH type="full" alt="game-of-thrones-4180794_1280.jpg"]401488[/ATTACH] [URL='https://pixabay.com/photos/game-of-thrones-book-books-map-4180794/']Picture courtesy of Pixabay.[/URL][/CENTER] [HEADING=2]Maps Are Not Destiny[/HEADING] Maps are important to games, and sometimes important to novels, although there are novelists like Glenn Cook who feel that maps restrict their freedom of action too much. I’m a big fan of maps, with a bookshelf full of (mostly historical) atlases, and I’ve always played RPGs with maps. I was surprised to learn that some people play RPGs without player maps - not even maps when they’re exploring a dungeon. Mapping for players goes from detailed on graph paper to drawings to connectivity-line diagrams to nothing at all. [URL='http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?168563-Dungeon-layout-map-flow-and-old-school-game-design']See this thread[/URL] for a more detailed discussion of maps in [B][I]Dungeons & Dragons[/I][/B]. Remember that “the map is not the territory.” What I’m really interested in is the physical layout of an area, as shown by a map. But it’s convenient to talk about maps rather than layouts. I’ll try to generalize, but remember different points of view (e.g. that a secret door is “a dirty GM trick” versus “an opportunity to display your and your characters’ skills”). See my previous article, "[URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/worlds-of-design-the-lost-art-of-being-lost.693871/']The Lost Art of Getting Lost[/URL]" for an in-depth discussion about secret doors. [HEADING=2]The Fun of Exploration[/HEADING] What do we want in the layout/map, what makes this interesting for players? [LIST] [*][B]Alternate Routes: [/B]If there’s only one route to any particular thing, players may begin to feel like they’re “on rails” (as happens in so many video games), without a choice. Alternate routes (with differing encounters along the way) can avoid that feeling even if all of those routes lead to the same place! [*][B]Channelization[/B]: In this case the layout forces intruders such as adventurers to follow a particular route - a channel. For example, a valley between steep cliffs. It often leads to a chokepoint where some kind of defense has been established. Yes, the adventurers can decide to go back before reaching the chokepoint, but that usually achieves the goal of the defenders. [*][B]Choke points: [/B]Choke points aren’t quite the same as channelization. It’s a blockage. The choke point may be at the end of channelization, where the forced guidance of channelization leads to a particular spot. The spot may be easily defensible, or it may have a big trap. For example, there may be a fortress at the end of the channeled route. [*][B]Dead Ends: [/B]From some players’ point of view, a dead-end is a waste of time. But that happens even in modern road systems, or in box canyons in mountains. From a GM’s point of view the adventures may go down a dead-end and then some hostile creature(s) wanders along - and the characters are trapped. Or there may be a desirable location at the end of the “dead end” such as the abode of a sage. [*][B]Multiple Ingress and Egress: [/B]This is typical of most structures, and most of the outdoor world. Something as modest as a private residence often has several doors in and out. [*][B]A Sensible Layout: [/B]A large dungeon isn’t easily explained in believable terms. But it could be a fortress (which would have to be mostly underground in a magical fantasy world). I’m not convinced by the “constructed by a mad wizard” excuse. But in the fantastical gameplay style you don’t need to explain why things exist, they’re just there. [*][B]Ways to Get Lost: [/B]This was just about built into the [B][I]original/Advanced D&D[/I][/B]. Rotating rooms and one-way doors in a structure could achieve this, and some of the most memorable adventures occurred when you had trouble getting out of there. Outdoors, a landslide or bridge destroyed by weather can block the route back. But any way to get lost may be classified by some as another “dirty GM trick. [/LIST] [HEADING=2]There’s Always a Back Door![/HEADING] There are more chances for many of these features in buildings/underground than in the outdoors. Some can be used outdoors. Remember also the “wisdom of the ancients”: Players will “always” find a back door, if there is one! (At least, it’ll seem that way.) Back doors that only open from inside might be wise – though magic can defeat such things. [B]Your Turn: What makes a map interesting to you and your players?[/B] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Worlds of Design: Here Be Monsters
Top