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<blockquote data-quote="Dungeonosophy" data-source="post: 7739351" data-attributes="member: 6688049">Thanks for your comments conclave.Yeah, the &quot;Up, Away, and Beyond&quot; DRAGON mag article by then-D&amp;D brand manager Bruce Heard is the most explicit explanation in regard to the actual &quot;game systems&quot; being different in-story Realities. Cool to draw the Alternity &quot;Tangent&quot; concept in too. Yes.In regard to Realities (i.e. &quot;game system-based Tangents&quot;, as opposed to alternate storyline-based Tangents), there are nine main Tangents:* Original Reality (OD&amp;D)* Classic Reality (CD&amp;D / B/X D&amp;D / BECMI D&amp;D)* First Reality (AD&amp;D 1E)* Second Reality (AD&amp;D 2E)* Saga Reality (Saga system, as seen in Krynn, and also a DRAGON mag article about using Saga cards for other worlds)* Third Reality (3E/3.5E/d20 Modern)* Fourth Reality (4E)* Fifth Reality (5E)Presumably all of the D&amp;D Worlds exist in all nine Realities. For example, in the DRAGON mag article, Bruce Heard mentions the possibility that Oerth also exists in the Classic (BECMI) Reality. And all nine Realities have always existed in the past, present, future. To say that Earth is not in the same reality as the D&amp;D Worlds requires more explanations and definitions. And there are various &quot;canonical&quot; &quot;placements&quot; of Earth, most of which are contradictory. So these different Earths must be different Tangents. For example:* 1) The Oerth-Yarth-Aerth-Earth continuum of Gary Gygax which you mention. Murlynd visited Earth and got his six-shooters. Since these adventures occurred in Gary's home campaign, they might be dated to the OD&amp;D era. Though later touched on in AD&amp;D1e (and Mythus system!).* 2) In the BECMI boxed sets, the Known World (then known as &quot;Urt&quot;, not &quot;Mystara&quot;), was said to be our Earth! But in a fantastic Jurassic past. And the Immortals were later perceived in Earth history as the &quot;gods&quot;. Yet there were cross-overs with the Earth-based &quot;Boot Hill&quot;, &quot;Dawn Patrol&quot;, and &quot;Gangbusters&quot; via the Alternate World Gates in the Book of Marvelous Magic. An AD&amp;D bard crosses over through one of the gates too. And there's an Immortal-level module where the PCs visit Chicago! Presumably this is time-travel, since Urt is the same planet as Earth. And the Averoignians come to Urt from France.* 3) But in the Rules Cyclopedia/Wrath of the Immortals-reboot of Mystara, Earth (called there &quot;Laterre&quot;) was said to be in a different Dimension, known as the Dimension of Myth.* 4) IIRC, the AD&amp;D 1E Manual of the Planes implied that each D&amp;D World (Krynn, Oerth, Abeir-Toril), and also Earth, is an Alternate Prime Material Plane, each with their own &quot;outer space&quot;. They couldn't reach each other by starcraft, because they are entirely different Material Planes. The Babylonian and Egyptian cultures come to Forgotten Realms from Earth.* 5) IIRC, in AD&amp;D 2E, there were two main Earth settings: the &quot;magic Earth&quot; of the Historical Reference series and the &quot;Gothic Earth&quot; of Masque of the Red Death. (Discounting licensed settings such as Buck Rodgers and Indiana Jones.) In Roger Moore's chronomancy article, Historical Reference Earth is called &quot;magic Earth&quot;. The Wizards Three visited Earth. In contrast to 1E, all D&amp;D Worlds were moved into a single Material Plane, the Spelljammer cosmology within the Great Wheel. I don't remember if or how 2E located &quot;magic Earth&quot; and &quot;Gothic Earth&quot; vis-a-vis the Spelljammer/Great Wheel.* 6) In 3E, Earth was reachable via the Plane of Shadow. It would have its own Cosmology/Planar framework, since each world had its own Cosmology in 3E, which were only linked via a shared Plane of Shadow. Like you say, the various d20 Modern/Future/Past campaign models must be different Tangents of Earth within the 3E/d20 Modern Reality. There was at least one 3e-era Ravenloft novel set on Earth.* 7) I don't know if or how 4E addressed Earth as a D&amp;D setting. Except that Gamma World was explicitly branded as a 4E D&amp;D setting.* 8) I don't know how/where Earth will be located in the 5E cosmology. That's what this thread is about! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I would consider all of these to be Tangents of &quot;D&amp;D Earth&quot;, each which could theoretically be depicted through any of the &quot;game system&quot; Realities.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dungeonosophy, post: 7739351, member: 6688049"] Thanks for your comments conclave. Yeah, the "Up, Away, and Beyond" DRAGON mag article by then-D&D brand manager Bruce Heard is the most explicit explanation in regard to the actual "game systems" being different in-story Realities. Cool to draw the Alternity "Tangent" concept in too. Yes. In regard to Realities (i.e. "game system-based Tangents", as opposed to alternate storyline-based Tangents), there are nine main Tangents: * Original Reality (OD&D) * Classic Reality (CD&D / B/X D&D / BECMI D&D) * First Reality (AD&D 1E) * Second Reality (AD&D 2E) * Saga Reality (Saga system, as seen in Krynn, and also a DRAGON mag article about using Saga cards for other worlds) * Third Reality (3E/3.5E/d20 Modern) * Fourth Reality (4E) * Fifth Reality (5E) Presumably all of the D&D Worlds exist in all nine Realities. For example, in the DRAGON mag article, Bruce Heard mentions the possibility that Oerth also exists in the Classic (BECMI) Reality. And all nine Realities have always existed in the past, present, future. To say that Earth is not in the same reality as the D&D Worlds requires more explanations and definitions. And there are various "canonical" "placements" of Earth, most of which are contradictory. So these different Earths must be different Tangents. For example: * 1) The Oerth-Yarth-Aerth-Earth continuum of Gary Gygax which you mention. Murlynd visited Earth and got his six-shooters. Since these adventures occurred in Gary's home campaign, they might be dated to the OD&D era. Though later touched on in AD&D1e (and Mythus system!). * 2) In the BECMI boxed sets, the Known World (then known as "Urt", not "Mystara"), was said to be our Earth! But in a fantastic Jurassic past. And the Immortals were later perceived in Earth history as the "gods". Yet there were cross-overs with the Earth-based "Boot Hill", "Dawn Patrol", and "Gangbusters" via the Alternate World Gates in the Book of Marvelous Magic. An AD&D bard crosses over through one of the gates too. And there's an Immortal-level module where the PCs visit Chicago! Presumably this is time-travel, since Urt is the same planet as Earth. And the Averoignians come to Urt from France. * 3) But in the Rules Cyclopedia/Wrath of the Immortals-reboot of Mystara, Earth (called there "Laterre") was said to be in a different Dimension, known as the Dimension of Myth. * 4) IIRC, the AD&D 1E Manual of the Planes implied that each D&D World (Krynn, Oerth, Abeir-Toril), and also Earth, is an Alternate Prime Material Plane, each with their own "outer space". They couldn't reach each other by starcraft, because they are entirely different Material Planes. The Babylonian and Egyptian cultures come to Forgotten Realms from Earth. * 5) IIRC, in AD&D 2E, there were two main Earth settings: the "magic Earth" of the Historical Reference series and the "Gothic Earth" of Masque of the Red Death. (Discounting licensed settings such as Buck Rodgers and Indiana Jones.) In Roger Moore's chronomancy article, Historical Reference Earth is called "magic Earth". The Wizards Three visited Earth. In contrast to 1E, all D&D Worlds were moved into a single Material Plane, the Spelljammer cosmology within the Great Wheel. I don't remember if or how 2E located "magic Earth" and "Gothic Earth" vis-a-vis the Spelljammer/Great Wheel. * 6) In 3E, Earth was reachable via the Plane of Shadow. It would have its own Cosmology/Planar framework, since each world had its own Cosmology in 3E, which were only linked via a shared Plane of Shadow. Like you say, the various d20 Modern/Future/Past campaign models must be different Tangents of Earth within the 3E/d20 Modern Reality. There was at least one 3e-era Ravenloft novel set on Earth. * 7) I don't know if or how 4E addressed Earth as a D&D setting. Except that Gamma World was explicitly branded as a 4E D&D setting. * 8) I don't know how/where Earth will be located in the 5E cosmology. That's what this thread is about! :) I would consider all of these to be Tangents of "D&D Earth", each which could theoretically be depicted through any of the "game system" Realities. [/QUOTE]

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