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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Worlds of Design: Is Combat Now Passe?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8046313" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>I think in this sense combat has been passe since about 1985 with the rise of the Dragonlance Saga, and Gygax being forced out of TSR. I'd go so far as to say that with the sole exception of 4e D&D has not had good combat rules since hirelings were deprecated and the low level experience moved from rules intended to cover a small platoon on the PCs side to the PCs having enough people for a strong fireteam or possibly a very very small squad. When you're dealing with an entire platoon having a single attack button is more than enough - there are a couple of dozen hirelings and you don't want to slow things down. Also Attacks of Opportunity being just for breaking out of the melee are fine. On the other hand for a single character walking forward and mashing A into a horde of enemies is reminiscent of nothing more than Double Dragon.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, 1985. When the low level experience involves an entire platoon of hirelings then putting death on the table for the NPCs is fine. And even if the fighter dies we've got a ready made pool of NPCs right there and waiting. DL1 meanwhile had the "Obscure Death Rule" to protect low level characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I assume that this is about how Fourth Edition wasn't about spellcasters? Because it was the only edition to have defined rules for problem solving (replacing the long-missed XP for GP rules from 1e) and set structures to enable the DM to handle task as opposed to action resolution. 4e also does great capstone fights but not so good incidental fights.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Very far from D&D-with-hirelings. But not far at all from the Obscure Death Rule from Dragonlance.</p><p></p><p>To sum up combat isn't passe - but the game hasn't been about teams with hirelings for a long time. Combat is a desert not the main dish it was in the wargamer-dominated era.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8046313, member: 87792"] I think in this sense combat has been passe since about 1985 with the rise of the Dragonlance Saga, and Gygax being forced out of TSR. I'd go so far as to say that with the sole exception of 4e D&D has not had good combat rules since hirelings were deprecated and the low level experience moved from rules intended to cover a small platoon on the PCs side to the PCs having enough people for a strong fireteam or possibly a very very small squad. When you're dealing with an entire platoon having a single attack button is more than enough - there are a couple of dozen hirelings and you don't want to slow things down. Also Attacks of Opportunity being just for breaking out of the melee are fine. On the other hand for a single character walking forward and mashing A into a horde of enemies is reminiscent of nothing more than Double Dragon. Again, 1985. When the low level experience involves an entire platoon of hirelings then putting death on the table for the NPCs is fine. And even if the fighter dies we've got a ready made pool of NPCs right there and waiting. DL1 meanwhile had the "Obscure Death Rule" to protect low level characters. I assume that this is about how Fourth Edition wasn't about spellcasters? Because it was the only edition to have defined rules for problem solving (replacing the long-missed XP for GP rules from 1e) and set structures to enable the DM to handle task as opposed to action resolution. 4e also does great capstone fights but not so good incidental fights. Very far from D&D-with-hirelings. But not far at all from the Obscure Death Rule from Dragonlance. To sum up combat isn't passe - but the game hasn't been about teams with hirelings for a long time. Combat is a desert not the main dish it was in the wargamer-dominated era. [/QUOTE]
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