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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AtomicPope" data-source="post: 8449411" data-attributes="member: 64790">Walls are still useful in Fantasy, since most things don't fly.Interestingly enough, I work in groceries and we have a big problem with "flyers".  Pigeons and crows like to get into the warehouse and get at our dry goods.  Crows in particular know a bag of chips when they see it and go straight for the Doritos.  They actually prefer Doritos over other chips.  (I'm sure there's a commercial in there somewhere. )The company set up nets and spikes to stop both movement and rest.  When they have no where safe to land up high they just leave the area entirely.  A few years ago there were literally hundreds of pigeons in the yard, except when an owl was present.  Now there's maybe a handful.Many, many times.  I've run The Return to the Keep on the Borderlands probably a dozen times, and for every edition of D&D except BECMI, and on a few occasions I had the PCs fight off a siege against the Keep.  The PCs would defend the walls against Hobgoblin led hordes.  The finale hinges on defeating the Orge battering rams before the doors come down.  Way back in AD&D a friend ran an all knights campaign using Cavaliers from UA and we partook in several sieges and defended against them.  It was a lot of fun.  In a 3e Greyhawk Wars campaign we had a defense of the Shield Lands and our keep was overrun by Orcs and fiends.  Only the Quasits were flying so it was more of a nuisance than anything.  There were far more interesting scenes like Barlgura scaling the walls while invisible and sabotaging the keep from the inside.In 5e we had a few campaigns where walls were used.  There's a scene in Horde of the Dragon Queen that has the PCs defend against a Blue Dragon from the walls.  It's a ham-fisted execution of a plot hook.A homebrew 5e campaign was apocalyptic, where Devils overran and enslaved the world.  It had lots of sieges.  Part of the themes in the campaign were how Devils exploited the weaknesses in everyone's defenses.  The DM showcased several different lands with different architecture.  Courts were infiltrated with shapeshifting and subverted with charms.  Beguiled by Devils they'd simply lower the drawbridge and let the armies in.  Walls posed little threat to the flying Devils.  I came up with the plan to use nets and spike the roofs to limit their movement.  Nets were particularly effective in the Tabaxi Kingdom where they had tree houses.  It was a well run campaign that lasted deep into 20th level.The best part was how certain places, like a stronghold of Paladins, were basically impervious to the Devils.  The Devils tested their defenses and when it proved difficult they moved on, trapping them in their stronghold. That was a good takeaway from the campaign.  Not all defenses are useful against all adversaries.  Hallowed ground is a great defense against immortal foes like celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead, and can even be used to ward of Goblins and Orcs.  Walls won't stop an army of ghosts but they're powerless on Hallowed ground.  They can't frighten or possess anyone.  Since we're talking about obscenely powerful monsters then we should consider these types of defenses.  After all, that's why kingdoms need to be saved by adventurers.</blockquote>

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