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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7984814" data-attributes="member: 42582">I've lost track of what your point is. You seemed to start by saying that, because the world isn't fair, random rolls can fit any game if a grouip chooses to use them.Now you seem to be saying that, if a group enjoys random rolls, and if a game provies for them, then a group can use them.The first claim was interesting and, in my view, false, because there are many games where random rolls don't fit in ways that having nothing to do with what a group chooses, nor with the (un)fairness of the world.The second claim seems to be uninteresting and bordering on the tautological.There are points-buy systems that don't manifest the sort of system mastery and kinky munchkin twists you describe here.One example would be (again) Prince Valiant. Another would be spending XP to change or improve your character in Cortex+ Heroic/MHRP. Another, I think, would be choosing a new PC option in Apocalypse World.In those systems, player skill - to the extent that it is a thing at all in those games - manifests primarily at the moment of resolution, not in PC building.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7984814, member: 42582"] I've lost track of what your point is. You seemed to start by saying that, [I]because the world isn't fair[/I], random rolls can fit [I]any game[/I] if a grouip chooses to use them. Now you seem to be saying that, [I]if a group enjoys random rolls[/I], and [I]if a game provies for them[/I], then a group can use them. The first claim was interesting and, in my view, false, because there are many games where random rolls don't fit in ways that having nothing to do with [I]what a group chooses[/I], nor with the [I](un)fairness of the world[/I]. The second claim seems to be uninteresting and bordering on the tautological. There are points-buy systems that don't manifest the sort of system mastery and kinky munchkin twists you describe here. One example would be (again) Prince Valiant. Another would be spending XP to change or improve your character in Cortex+ Heroic/MHRP. Another, I think, would be choosing a new PC option in Apocalypse World. In those systems, player skill - to the extent that it is a thing at all in those games - manifests primarily at the moment of resolution, not in PC building. [/QUOTE]

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